Any AR15 6.5 Grendel Shooters?
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I raced over the article and there is lots of interesting info but like other presentations of this ilke, scewed to reach a conclusion.
We know that the 6.8SPC rd was developed with military applications as the main end use. Bullets offered were geared towards those tasks. Not surprisingly, they achieve alot of the desired results.
Take that same bullet technology and apply it to ANY small cal and voila, same results.
The only real comparison I saw between the SPC and Grendel was shooting into gel using to OTM bullets. But what bullets were they?
As many hunters now enjoy, you can select a bullet type to meet a particular end use goal and voila, excellent results.
There is no argument from me that bigger is better for busting through stuff and knocking down objects. The 7.62X39 has been proving that for a meer 60ish yrs.
Going 264 or 277 is likely academic. However, what they don't talk about is the larger bore will always wear longer given similar amounts of powder and pressure burnt. That would be very important in the field.
Larger bores will always offer lower BC bullets given the same material used and similar bullet weights. Is that important for extending the range of a field soldier?????
Larger bore bullets will allow more 'stuff' to be enclosed giving more options for end use.
IF the US is to change to another cal, the 270 will seem like the most politically correct thing to choose. Going to either the 6.5 or 7mm will most definitely open old wounds within the NATO family.
Change the bullet, change the performance....
Jerry
We know that the 6.8SPC rd was developed with military applications as the main end use. Bullets offered were geared towards those tasks. Not surprisingly, they achieve alot of the desired results.
Take that same bullet technology and apply it to ANY small cal and voila, same results.
The only real comparison I saw between the SPC and Grendel was shooting into gel using to OTM bullets. But what bullets were they?
As many hunters now enjoy, you can select a bullet type to meet a particular end use goal and voila, excellent results.
There is no argument from me that bigger is better for busting through stuff and knocking down objects. The 7.62X39 has been proving that for a meer 60ish yrs.
Going 264 or 277 is likely academic. However, what they don't talk about is the larger bore will always wear longer given similar amounts of powder and pressure burnt. That would be very important in the field.
Larger bores will always offer lower BC bullets given the same material used and similar bullet weights. Is that important for extending the range of a field soldier?????
Larger bore bullets will allow more 'stuff' to be enclosed giving more options for end use.
IF the US is to change to another cal, the 270 will seem like the most politically correct thing to choose. Going to either the 6.5 or 7mm will most definitely open old wounds within the NATO family.
Change the bullet, change the performance....
Jerry
I have two Colt rifles. I saw a Grendel last week and did a bit of research and orderd an Alexander Arms 24 " Overwatch upper a couple of days ago, along with brass, dies and a couple of extra magazines. Alexander said about 8 weeks for delivery, so will be shooting one by spring. I have several Swedish Mausers so at least I will not have to buy another bullet size(diameter)
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Nothing odd at all.
Look at the politics at the end of WWII and the beginning of NATO and it is pretty easy to see why things went the way they did.
Thanks for playing...
Jerry
PS if they do go SPC, this will be 0.007" smaller but near identical ballistics in a slightly different case. Isn't Irony a #####????
I do believe that the bolts are different. Yes the boltface is the same diameter, but the face is deeper. Believe that Alexander Arms had some issues with bolt failure using regular 7.62 bolts so he modified it. Can't saying it can't be done, but it may not last.
As for the why, why not?
There are quite a few people using 7.62x39 bolts for the Grendel - however the bolt depth (as you mention) is different. The quality also varies between the different bolt manufacturers; apparently CMT make the best 7.62x39 bolts for this application. I understand bolt failure has been an issue with Alexander Arms proprietary bolts as well - many put this down to handloaders trying to push bullets too fast with both types of bolts.
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There is much discussion about this at the Grendel site and it seems the biggest adversary of using the 7.62x39 is Bill himself. Most others seem to think it is fine. He is trying way too hard to keep it proprietary and screwing everyone out of having it.
I am going to build mine on a 7.62x39 bolt. I just have to find a bolt and barrel extension to build it with!!! That is almost as hard as trying to find Grendel parts themselves (hint, hint, if you have a 7.62x39 bolt and barrel extension to sell me
)Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Need a 6.5 barrel?
Jerry
Jerry
I'm willing to bet that both of those rounds, 6.5 & 6.8 will be going away. Too expensive for the civilian market. The military isn't thrilled enough. And sales have been dismal in a political environment that is not ready to give a second chance to something new. If you have one, as I did, I'd sell it quick before everybody figures it out. I didn't like shooting either of them myself. Recoil was too sharp for me. I'd rather shoot 7.62x39. 200 yards is far enough in my book.
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No it's fact. I worked Bill Alexanders target at Tiger Valley range a few years ago and he was reaching out to 1000 yards with a 14.5" barreled ar. He was having scope issues and couldn't get it on paper but it was getting there with no problem.
that's Bill in the burgundy shirt shooting on the 200 yard line with it.
No it's fact. I worked Bill Alexanders target at Tiger Valley range a few years ago and he was reaching out to 1000 yards with a 14.5" barreled ar. He was having scope issues and couldn't get it on paper but it was getting there with no problem.
that's Bill in the burgundy shirt shooting on the 200 yard line with it.
lol. I can throw a .308 'out to a 1000'... and say " I'm having scope issues.
Whatever....It is debatable because alot of people have not been able to duplicate Bills 'Feats' with the round. Some pretty good numbers and data.......but somehow only he did it..Hmmm. i guess if you make the rifle you can 'make' the data too.
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While it's pushing it for the Grendel it will definately do 1k. I know shooters who take it to that distance.
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There is much discussion about this at the Grendel site and it seems the biggest adversary of using the 7.62x39 is Bill himself. Most others seem to think it is fine. He is trying way too hard to keep it proprietary and screwing everyone out of having it.
I am going to build mine on a 7.62x39 bolt. I just have to find a bolt and barrel extension to build it with!!! That is almost as hard as trying to find Grendel parts themselves (hint, hint, if you have a 7.62x39 bolt and barrel extension to sell me
The problem is you start to create headspace problems if your gun is set-up to use the 7.62x39 bolt and then you swap to an Alexander Arms bolt which has a deeper bolt face recess. If I am not mistaken (I might be though) apart from the feed ramps the 223 and 7.62x39 barrel extensions are the same - if you're using one for a 223 all you have to do is open up the feed ramps.
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It looks like there is not alot of 6.5 Grendel shooters out there.
This round has peaked my interest and would like to try modding a rifle to this SWO friendly round.
Anyone that does shoot this thing give me a pm
If you can get one through Wolverine do it, it's a great round.
There is much discussion about this at the Grendel site and it seems the biggest adversary of using the 7.62x39 is Bill himself. Most others seem to think it is fine. He is trying way too hard to keep it proprietary and screwing everyone out of having it.
I am going to build mine on a 7.62x39 bolt. I just have to find a bolt and barrel extension to build it with!!! That is almost as hard as trying to find Grendel parts themselves (hint, hint, if you have a 7.62x39 bolt and barrel extension to sell me
There is no reason not to use the AA bolt with the proper headspace. He only charge $66 for god sake !
Second of all, if you buy a 6.5 Grendel barrel they ALL come with the AA bolt
If you are against using a "proprietary bolt" then you can go the CSS 6.5 ( competition shooting sports ) since they use a 7.62 X 39 bolt ( neck dim is tighter as well (
BTW If you use a 6.5 Grendel bolt in a 7.62 X 39 AR the firing pin will barely touch the primer. If you use a 7.62X39 bolt you may not able to close the bolt on a 6.5Grendel brass ) depending how much sizing / or if it has been fired in a true 6.5Grendel
Headspace is about .011" off , which is quite a bit !
The problem, as I stated quite clearly, is that AA as of the last time I checked didn't export to Canada, nor were they interested in doing so. Sabre is expensive as hell and CSS is out of stock on everything. So, if you can get yourself a supply of 6.5 Grendel bolts for $66, you better order a few, hope they make it through customs and make a fortune up here selling them to people who really want one, but can't get one.
Using a 7.62 bolt and then switching to an AA later would cause headspace issues like some have mentioned, but why would you do that?
