Thank you for an informative, timely response!
Any ballistic apps that really work out there?
- Thread starter MartyK2500
- Start date
Thank you for an informative, timely response!
It all depends what gear you have or what gear you are planning to buy in the future. When I purchased my kestrel I made sure it had bluetooth as I was planning to pair it with my phone app.
The "connectivity of things" is where a number of companies are moving towards. All info is transferred directly to your scope. GPS, Laser Finder, Kestrel and Scope can all be paired making it very easy for newbie shooter to reach out and hit things.
Watch the vids.
Video 1- Short 2 minutes
Video 2- A bit longer 10 minutes
Around 5min they show using the app to program holdovers you see in the scope - very very cool.
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Yup, the Bluetooth version is more more versatile with the functionality of being able to pair it other devices, and of course a bit more "future proof", as everything is heading towards integration of software and hardware in our world.
I love the ability to pair up my Vectronix Terrapin-X to my Kestrel - one click of a button on the range finder and the kestrel device instantly has the target distance, direction (azimuth) and inclination, and a firing solution instantly prepared. You can do this for multiple targets and make a "range card" of the targets you are ranging for the stage/COF.
The kestrel link app is handy as well. Very easy to create new profiles for your guns on the app, with access to the AB custom drag curve library, and transfer to your kestrel.
I love the ability to pair up my Vectronix Terrapin-X to my Kestrel - one click of a button on the range finder and the kestrel device instantly has the target distance, direction (azimuth) and inclination, and a firing solution instantly prepared. You can do this for multiple targets and make a "range card" of the targets you are ranging for the stage/COF.
The kestrel link app is handy as well. Very easy to create new profiles for your guns on the app, with access to the AB custom drag curve library, and transfer to your kestrel.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Anyone measure the DA change over the course of the day at your location?
And how much that affects your drops at 400, 800 and 1200yds?
Jerry
And how much that affects your drops at 400, 800 and 1200yds?
Jerry
That's a big reason (along with many others) to why many of us use Kestrel's to keep up with the exact environmentals at our location while shooting, rather than relying on printed out drop cards. A change in 500' of DA will affect ballistics enough to potentially result in a miss at distance. Where I have lived, I've seen DA changes of 2000+ ft over the course of a few hours.
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It's also great if you travel and shoot in a lot of different locations, as of course the environmentals will be different everywhere you go. Rather than rely on cellphones and cellular signal/data, and trying to find a weather station that is remotely close to you, you can get the exact environmentals at your location.
I've shot my precision rifles in Alberta, Ontario, Texas, Arizona, Tennessee, Utah, Oklahoma, Colorado, Washington state and will be heading to Alaska (and probably a few other new states) next year for shooting. Regardless of drastically different DA's and environmentals between these locations, my Kestrel with AB has been bang on with my ballistics, allowing me to focus on the fundamentals and COF rather than worrying about whether my dope is correct or not.
For those that are shooting at the same ranges, with known distances and wind flags, a Kestrel may not be a wise investment. But if you are out in the field, shooting in multiple different locations throughout the year and especially in adverse conditions, it's pretty much an essential tool for the toolbox.
I've shot my precision rifles in Alberta, Ontario, Texas, Arizona, Tennessee, Utah, Oklahoma, Colorado, Washington state and will be heading to Alaska (and probably a few other new states) next year for shooting. Regardless of drastically different DA's and environmentals between these locations, my Kestrel with AB has been bang on with my ballistics, allowing me to focus on the fundamentals and COF rather than worrying about whether my dope is correct or not.
For those that are shooting at the same ranges, with known distances and wind flags, a Kestrel may not be a wise investment. But if you are out in the field, shooting in multiple different locations throughout the year and especially in adverse conditions, it's pretty much an essential tool for the toolbox.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Mucking on JBM, there is a section called "Trajectory Card". When you enter you basic info, it generates a card with your drops as it relates to temp and altitude. We have been very aware of AD for many many years and it was always something I kept an eye on at the various ranges I compete at.
Is there an affect on your drop, of course there is... but just leaving a few data points here for discussion.
My bullet is the Berger 6.5 140gr VLD (Litz) at 2700fps... I am using the 40F and 90F values since that is the full range of temps I would "choose" to shoot in. It also generates values of your drop for 1000, 4000 and 7000ft AD. The vast majority of my matches will be 1000ft'ish... but I do go to Homestead, AB which is 6/7k'ish..
Values are in mils cause... the drops will be 40F/90F with the first pair at 1000ft, 2nd 4000, 3rd 7000ft.
400yds 2.1/2.1, 2.0/2.0, 2.0/2.0
800yds 6.2/6.3, 6.0/6.0, 5.8/5.8
(if I am misunderstanding the data, please let me know)
Be interesting to see what other ballistics programs generate and compare... but we all have access to JBM so you can play along.
I think when you plot the AD at any one location over the course of a day, it is very rare to see an AD change over "2000ft" from base altitude... unless you are about to be hit by a tornado, and then the match is likely to be canceled. I am going to ball park, that 1000ft AD change is pretty typical for any one day at any one location.
For comparison, I estimate that most of the PRS type targets are 0.5 to 1mil tall.
Jerry
Is there an affect on your drop, of course there is... but just leaving a few data points here for discussion.
My bullet is the Berger 6.5 140gr VLD (Litz) at 2700fps... I am using the 40F and 90F values since that is the full range of temps I would "choose" to shoot in. It also generates values of your drop for 1000, 4000 and 7000ft AD. The vast majority of my matches will be 1000ft'ish... but I do go to Homestead, AB which is 6/7k'ish..
Values are in mils cause... the drops will be 40F/90F with the first pair at 1000ft, 2nd 4000, 3rd 7000ft.
400yds 2.1/2.1, 2.0/2.0, 2.0/2.0
800yds 6.2/6.3, 6.0/6.0, 5.8/5.8
(if I am misunderstanding the data, please let me know)
Be interesting to see what other ballistics programs generate and compare... but we all have access to JBM so you can play along.
I think when you plot the AD at any one location over the course of a day, it is very rare to see an AD change over "2000ft" from base altitude... unless you are about to be hit by a tornado, and then the match is likely to be canceled. I am going to ball park, that 1000ft AD change is pretty typical for any one day at any one location.
For comparison, I estimate that most of the PRS type targets are 0.5 to 1mil tall.
Jerry
This may be the input I am missing with these apps, I never played around with atmospheric density, or at least maybe not.
You got me whipping my Kestrel out of my range bag and see..., I use pressure and baro, which almost always give the same reading.
Here is how I was taught (and it may not be the right way mind you), was to check the box ''pressure is corrected'', ignore Altitude, and use baro pressure.
So my range cards are printed in 0.5inHG intervals.
You got me whipping my Kestrel out of my range bag and see..., I use pressure and baro, which almost always give the same reading.
Here is how I was taught (and it may not be the right way mind you), was to check the box ''pressure is corrected'', ignore Altitude, and use baro pressure.
So my range cards are printed in 0.5inHG intervals.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Is there much difference in your come ups over the range of the pressures you have on your cards?
And what is the anticipated range of pressure change at your location?
And does your cards account for changes in ambient light?
Jerry
And what is the anticipated range of pressure change at your location?
And does your cards account for changes in ambient light?
Jerry
Marty, the easiest way to use Ballistic AE in conjunction with your Kestrel is to use Density Altitude. Your Kestrel 5000 should have that as an output. There's no need to screw around with barometric pressure, etc and all that since DA is an aggregate of temperature, barometric pressure and humidity. All you need to input into the ballistic app (as far as atmospherics go) is DA and temperature (because even though temp factors into DA, it affects muzzle velocity because of powder burn rates and you can have the same DA shooting on a hot day at sea level as on a cold day at altitude) and then you should be bang on.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
^^^^ This.. work in DA and life is simplier.
But do compare the change in drop vs DA. I like to get a feel of what might happen over the day at my location.
Jerry
Yes my Kestrel has this.
I have a current reading of 1178ft as we speak.
Speaking for either Ballistic AE or JBM, would I write 1178ft for altitude and keep baro pressure blank?
If not, I have a hard time figuring how range cards should be organized.
Here, we both see a screen shot of ballistic AE conditions input screen,
and range cards I use at the moment, built from a template a friend has sent me, so that I can copy/paste whats going on in JBM ballistics to them.
You've obviously never shot in Texas or Oklahoma then. Commonly, the DA will be ~200-300 ft in the morning, and shift to ~2500-3000 ft in a few hours as the sun comes up and the heat is cranked up. Very common for the summer to see these big DA shifts.
In competition, I have noticed that these big DA shifts can change your firing solutions by a few tenths of a mil. That can definitely be the difference between a hit or a miss. Will you see a much of a trajectory difference at 400 yards? No. But at 800+ you sure will.
A common target size in PRS for the long prone stages is 2 MOA, which is 0.6 mils. Most shooters aim for the middle of the target, which gives you 0.3 mils above and below your aiming point. A 0.3 mil change in elevation due to environmentals (which I have seen) would result in a miss. Factor in various other factors such as cross wind jump with a shifty wind, sun shift, etc., and it really isn't too hard to see how a miss can result from not having the correct ballistics for the correct DA.
This is why I am getting my dope for the targets right before I shoot the stage, rather than just recording my dope for all the stages the night before or the morning of the match - it will shift, and it will affect your firing solutions. Some days by a good deal, other days the shift may hardly occur and be inconsequential to your ballistics. But you won't know unless you are keeping an eye on the actual constant environmental data, and a Kestrel is probably the best tool for this.
For those shooting on known distance ranges every 100 yards/ 100 M, with wind flags and sighter shots, the Kestrel may not be necessary. But for those shooting in widely varying conditions and environments, shooting at targets where a first round impact is very advantageous, at varying yards (not just 100 yard increments, but 871 yards, 1332, etc.) a Kestrel will be much more effective than pre-printed ballistic cards.
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Exactly. DA pretty much encompasses all the environmentals that will effect your trajectory. The simplest, easiest and best way to account for changing environmentals is with DA (with the exception of cross wind jump, sun shift, Coriolis - but you get the point).
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Yes my Kestrel has this.
I have a current reading of 1178ft as we speak.
Speaking for either Ballistic AE or JBM, would I write 1178ft for altitude and keep baro pressure blank?
If not, I have a hard time figuring how range cards should be organized.
Here, we both see a screen shot of ballistic AE conditions input screen,
and range cards I use at the moment, built from a template a friend has sent me, so that I can copy/paste whats going on in JBM ballistics to them.
You have to go into the settings for Ballistic AE and change the atmosphere format to Density Altitude. After you do that you’ll only have temperature and density altitude as fields to fill in.
You know Ryan your response here tells me more about what's wrong with the way you think than it does me.
I'm certainly not raging on the kid... never meant to suggest such a thing... you just assumed I was and read into it wrong. Perhaps that's the problem with the typed word... I just assumed the reader has his heart in the right place when reading it... sorry... that's my mistake to have made such an absurd assumption.
I have won enough shooting events in my life that quite frankly I have nothing to prove to anyone including myself.
My whole point began simply to highlight that the Kestrel has good value... it generates good solid information... so good that even a kid with limited shooting experience can come in 34th place using the data from a Kestrel. That's all.
That he beat me by a couple points is a moot point other than to point out that the Kestrel data was good enough for him to do so.
Can a guy play without one ? sure, but clearly having one will not be a handicap to even the most inexperienced, and I don't think it would hurt a guy with experience either.
This is a thread that keeps going, and going and going.....
Sometimes bumped by some ballistic apps testing, sometimes bumped by the young punks story!
Which got me thinking, is the ballistic app in the kestrel for sale as an app?
I could link up my kestrel 5000 to it and get something somewhat similar maybe.
Sometimes bumped by some ballistic apps testing, sometimes bumped by the young punks story!
Which got me thinking, is the ballistic app in the kestrel for sale as an app?
I could link up my kestrel 5000 to it and get something somewhat similar maybe.
Ya.... I am the one looking bad in this thread.
Shelldrake
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Right behind you,,
Yes, it is available. Check out the Applied Ballistics website.
http://appliedballisticsllc.com/products/apps/
