Any Consensus On Plastic Mags?

[Epoxy7]

What can I say, great minds or "posers" think alike. TDC definitely didn't try to make any friends on the forum that's for sure.

The RCMP are free to select whatever they wish. They also use S&W 5946 pistols which are very outdated and sport very heavy DAO triggers. At one time the RCMP selected mini 14's as a patrol rifle and some still use Remington 700's. I would imagine the adoption of USGI magazines was more financial than performance based. I bet there are mountains of USGI mags available from vendors and manufacturers at near zero cost. I heard a rumour from a quite reputable source that the Calgary Police service was issuing 20 round AR mags when they first got patrol carbines because they scored a sweet sweet deal on a boat load of them when they bought their rifles. True or not, the logic is there. I wouldn't be surprised if some in the decision making process relied on their past knowledge/experience of USGI mags as opposed to current hard data. The rifle the optic the stock etc etc are one time fixed purchases. Magazines are a consumable item and need to be constantly purchased and replaced.

The US MIL banning Pmags as you posted had nothing to do with the mags not functioning, it was/is an issue with sharing resources with non US forces. Using any type of mag in a SAW is a pretty desperate situation. They don't run very well with USGI mags either.

The Pmag can be thrown around and driven over without failing, a USGI cannot. I don't think it's a tough decision between the two.

TW25B

So the RCMP put together a rifle with a $200 stock, $40 pistol grip, $900 aimpoint, $130 Troy backup sight, $300 surefire light, $70 tango down, $130 sling, $350 trigger but choose the metal mags to save money? Ya ok. The carbine purchase is recent unlike the 5946. Your logic really doesn't make the grade. If they believed the pmag was best, they would have gone with it. All the other components are top grade. Also they are using 77 grain boat tails for ammo.

Kind if weird how you restate what I already posted as the reason for pmag issues within the US military. By the way some of the firearms the US special forces and marines use also don't function with pmags. The FN C9 or SAW as it's noted in the US for example. The HK416 is another example. Not just allied weapons have compatibility issues but even those within their services armory! Problem sounds familiar. Kind of kills the "non spec" stuff is crap theory.

 

[Gunnerlove]

I have found that the C9s, M249s and Minimis I have used run better (fewer stoppages and a higher cyclic) from mags than from belts (when used with live ammo), but what do I know.

They do beat up the catch recess on Pmags more than aluminum mags.

 

[TW25B]

So the RCMP put together a rifle with a $200 stock, $40 pistol grip, $900 aimpoint, $130 Troy backup sight, $300 surefire light, $70 tango down, $130 sling, $350 trigger but choose the metal mags to save money? Ya ok. The carbine purchase is recent unlike the 5946. Your logic really doesn't make the grade. If they believed the pmag was best, they would have gone with it. All the other components are top grade. Also they are using 77 grain boat tails for ammo.

Kind if weird how you restate what I already posted as the reason for pmag issues within the US military. By the way some of the firearms the US special forces and marines use also don't function with pmags. The FN C9 or SAW as it's noted in the US for example. The HK416 is another example. Not just allied weapons have compatibility issues but even those within their services armory! Problem sounds familiar. Kind of kills the "non spec" stuff is crap theory.

The RCMP doesn't pay retail for their gear, in case you didn't know. Buying in bulk has its perks and price is one of them. If you read my whole post you would have seen that their decision to adopt USGI over Pmags could very well be the result of "go with what you know" mentality. That is to say they haven't a clue about Pmags and simple go with what's been known to work(generally) for decades, or what was recommended from another department. Either way I don't care what the RCMP select as it has no effect on my own research and selection of equipment. The fact still remains that Magpul did extensive testing on their Pmag(and Emags) in cold climates with stellar results. I would be curious to see what if any reason there was for not adopting the Pmag. On a side note, Calgary Police Service uses Pmags. I guess they're idiots..

Yes some US units are using the HK 416, which has a non STANAG mag well. This is common knowledge which I'm sure the smart folks who are using this rifle are well aware of.

I have found that the C9s, M249s and Minimis I have used run better (fewer stoppages and a higher cyclic) from mags than from belts (when used with live ammo), but what do I know.

They do beat up the catch recess on Pmags more than aluminum mags.

Interesting information. Just to confirm, the Pmags do work in the 249's??

TW25B

 

[Epoxy7]

The RCMP doesn't pay retail for their gear, in case you didn't know. Buying in bulk has its perks and price is one of them. If you read my whole post you would have seen that their decision to adopt USGI over Pmags could very well be the result of "go with what you know" mentality. That is to say they haven't a clue about Pmags and simple go with what's been known to work(generally) for decades, or what was recommended from another department. Either way I don't care what the RCMP select as it has no effect on my own research and selection of equipment. The fact still remains that Magpul did extensive testing on their Pmag(and Emags) in cold climates with stellar results. I would be curious to see what if any reason there was for not adopting the Pmag. On a side note, Calgary Police Service uses Pmags. I guess they're idiots..

Yes some US units are using the HK 416, which has a non STANAG mag well. This is common knowledge which I'm sure the smart folks who are using this rifle are well aware of.



Interesting information. Just to confirm, the Pmags do work in the 249's??

TW25B

I actually know what the cost per carbine was for the RCMP. It wasn't cheap. Stop trying to "TDC" this. IE act like an expert about a subject you have no real direct knowledge in. Do you think they would be paying retail for pmags? Not likely. Also of note is that the components for the RCMP had to be sourced from multiple venders.

Sorry but your opinion that the metal mags were choosen for cost when compared to a carbine that is anything but cost cutting or that they somehow didn't know about them while choosing high end specialty components from multiple venders is utterly ridiculous. That you would maintain that position in spite of all the evidence to the contrary doesn't give your posts any credibility.

Why are you trying to come off as advising me that the HK416 is used by some US units? I know that. I even already posted that. You aren't advising me of this. I already made that point! I also already stated the issue with pmags not working with all systems. The HK416 was a military example I provided that is similar to civi use with multiple platforms.

 

[Maple Leaf Pilgrim]

I have been issued USGI aluminium mags, HK steel mags and P-Mags. Of all of them, I prefer the P-Mags, they tolerated rough use, impact and sand/dust better than the metal mags, as well, they could still be used after they were run over by a HMMWV. Disassembly is quick and easy and adding modifications, such as L-bottoms or Ranger plates was a simple matter. I have personally used P-Mags in temperatures as low as -50C at altitudes in excess of 14,000ft ASL on a glacier, the magazines worked fine. The only place I can think of that would be worse would be the Antarctic in the winter.

If you have any concerns about the magazines and functionality in various rifles, get the Gen 3 P-Mags, as they have been updated to be viable in most all rifles that use the AR style magwell.

-S.

 

[r34skyline]

I actually know what the cost per carbine was for the RCMP. It wasn't cheap. Stop trying to "TDC" this. IE act like an expert about a subject you have no real direct knowledge in. Do you think they would be paying retail for pmags? Not likely. Also of note is that the components for the RCMP had to be sourced from multiple venders.

Sorry but your opinion that the metal mags were choosen for cost when compared to a carbine that is anything but cost cutting or that they somehow didn't know about them while choosing high end specialty components from multiple venders is utterly ridiculous. That you would maintain that position in spite of all the evidence to the contrary doesn't give your posts any credibility.

Why are you trying to come off as advising me that the HK416 is used by some US units? I know that. I even already posted that. You aren't advising me of this. I already made that point! I also already stated the issue with pmags not working with all systems. The HK416 was a military example I provided that is similar to civi use with multiple platforms.

Can I just point out HK themselves have dumped their metal design for translucent polymer mags much like the lancer except the feed lips are polymer? And to note gen 3 pmags work just fine on the initial 416s as does the L5 AWM, and the a5 model functions fine with all generations of pmag.

And what is the cost per carbine? Where did you ascertain that information? I am quite interested. PM me on the matter please. I don't see why it wouldn't be a cost cutting measure or part of the deal. Colt makes the rifle I would imagine they would put in a deal that no private company can match pricewise. And mags are consumable and sold in bulk, and GI mags can probably be had for cheaper. And it's not like GI mags don't perform, but from the tests I have seen both Pmag and L5 AWM have outperformed GI mags under extended and hard use. But IIRC the weakest point of the M4 system had been the GI mags.

 

[Epoxy7]

R34skyline,
I would argue the GI mags were most likely chosen due to the controversy over pmags. Canadian military I recall had a similar concern at one time as did the US.

Do you know the component list for the RCMP C8IUR? If you did, you would see why it's clear the choice wasn't based on cost. That carbine is high end in every aspect.

I think the most reasonable conclusion is they didn't want to take any risks with the reliability. The Colt mag is a very known quantity.

 

[effinggoof]

So the RCMP put together a rifle with a $200 stock, $40 pistol grip, $900 aimpoint, $130 Troy backup sight, $300 surefire light, $70 tango down, $130 sling, $350 trigger but choose the metal mags to save money? Ya ok. The carbine purchase is recent unlike the 5946. Your logic really doesn't make the grade. If they believed the pmag was best, they would have gone with it. All the other components are top grade. Also they are using 77 grain boat tails for ammo.

Kind if weird how you restate what I already posted as the reason for pmag issues within the US military. By the way some of the firearms the US special forces and marines use also don't function with pmags. The FN C9 or SAW as it's noted in the US for example. The HK416 is another example. Not just allied weapons have compatibility issues but even those within their services armory! Problem sounds familiar. Kind of kills the "non spec" stuff is crap theory.

Did the RCMP do a mag test or did they just buy what Colt Canada was selling?

You seem to be putting a lot of faith in an organisation thats taken decades to sort out if they want cargo pockets or not.

 

[Epoxy7]

Did the RCMP do a mag test or did they just buy what Colt Canada was selling?

You seem to be putting a lot of faith in an organisation thats taken decades to sort out if they want cargo pockets or not.

Look at the end product and decide for yourself.

 

[johNTO]

I like the 5/20 metal mags because they look better in my LMT….

 

[Gunnerlove]

Interesting information. Just to confirm, the Pmags do work in the 249's??

TW25B

They did when I was jamming them in.