Any cowboy's out there?

SASS rules, yes cross draw are OK,30 degree rule, must be able to draw and holster safely.

SIDE note: draw shoot right side gun and holster, at the same time draw left side gun with LEFT hand from the cross draw holster and transfer it to the right hand at chest level, extend and shoot, now reach over the top of the gun with the LEFT hand and holster as you reach for the rifle off the table to be shot next.
" NORTH BORDER DRAW "
 
^^^That's kinda nutz.

Most cross draw that I've seen (RH shooter) is holstered on the left hip, handle at the belt buckle and is drawn by the right hand. My range has determined that it's the sweep motion that occurs out of the holster to the target that "could" pose a problem and therefore verboden.

The motion you describe would still have the "sweep" only on the right side of the shooter rather than the left. And, it's nutz trying to train passing guns into other hands when taken from various holsters.
 
Painkillers: There could be a potential sweep problem from a cross draw holster, if the shooter starts standing square to the target. With the holstered revolver facing along, or even pointing slightly behind the firing line(Depends on holster position on belt).

*Not so much, if the shooter starts facing at an angle away from the target ( For a right handed shooter, with the right foot placed about a half step back. Shooter's body aligns approximately 30-40 degrees away from firing line) The holstered revolver points down range. The 170-degree safety rule** is now in force. No sweep. Vice versa, for lefties.

Or: Just before executing the draw, rotating the upper body away from the target. Some shooters may also step back and rotate the body...pretty much duplicating the half step back starting position. This is often called: The 'cross draw dance'. With the revolver also pointing down range, as it clears leather. Again, the 170-degree rule applied.

As for transferring a revolver from one hand to the other, that is only a matter of practice. Careful attention needs to be paid to timing and hand positions when executing the transfer, so it proceeds smoothly. Otherwise, the process is not difficult to master.

It's understandable that some ranges will have valid safety concerns. But, a demonstration of the two safe cross draw methods, might convince the folks in charge how little....if any....chance there will be of a sweep occurring. When a cross draw is executed properly and safely.

Al

ps: I've seen the North Border draw Vicious describes, on many occasions. When done properly, it is fast, smooth and very efficient.

*Try this...will illustrate start position. Start, standing facing forward, both feet about a shoulder width apart and aligned square to the target. Now, take a half step back....either left or right foot. Note, how the upper body and pelvis will naturally want to rotate in the direction of the rear foot. If your holstered revolver started out pointing pretty much parallel to the firing line, where does it point, now?

** 170 Rule: When engaged(staged, or in shooter's hands), firearms may not point at an angle greater than 170 degrees, from the firing line(Firing line at 180-degrees). This provides a margin of safety for anyone on or behind the firing line. This rule applies at all times.

For detailed infrmation on safety procedures, be sure to access the SASS Shooters Handbook. Page 13 notes the '170 Rule'.
 
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Painkillers said:
^^^That's kinda nutz.

Most cross draw that I've seen (RH shooter) is holstered on the left hip, handle at the belt buckle and is drawn by the right hand. My range has determined that it's the sweep motion that occurs out of the holster to the target that "could" pose a problem and therefore verboden.

The motion you describe would still have the "sweep" only on the right side of the shooter rather than the left. And, it's nutz trying to train passing guns into other hands when taken from various holsters.
Click to expand...

That might be what youve seen before but it would be called at any SASS event...or it should be... SASS hand book says ( at least it did when I last read one prob 15 yrs ago) that all gun butts must be at least a fist width away from belt buckle or belly button if buckle not centered.

Every safety meeting held before each days shooting at our range mentions "doing the dance" that Alex describes because that is needed by most shooters using a cross draw to prevent sweeping a posse' because 99% of shooters draw and wrist flip their pistol bore up when drawing....however there is a completely safe way to draw a pistol from a cross draw that only breaks the 170 rule for a part of a second ( it is impossible to draw any pistol from a cowboy rig with out breaking the 170 for that part of a second no matter how you draw).
You can stand square to the targets & if you draw the cross gun with a bent wrist and keep the bore down for that part second and then swing the bore towards firing line it will never sweep another posse member behind you or at one of the loaders or unloaders.
It takes a bit of practice to acquire the muscle memory to do this without thinking about it and I have been called on it a couple times by a new TO so I have to do it in slow motion to prove the safety of it and the penalties have always been thrown out.
 
Fingers284: An interesting technique. Not sure whether I've seen anyone use it. Though it does make sense. I generally prefer a double strong side draw. But, intend to try out your cross draw tip, in the near future. Worth learning(Always on the hunt to improve at the game).

Thanks for sharing

Al
 
fingers284 said:
That might be what youve seen before but it would be called at any SASS event...or it should be... SASS hand book says ( at least it did when I last read one prob 15 yrs ago) that all gun butts must be at least a fist width away from belt buckle or belly button if buckle not centered.

Every safety meeting held before each days shooting at our range mentions "doing the dance" that Alex describes because that is needed by most shooters using a cross draw to prevent sweeping a posse' because 99% of shooters draw and wrist flip their pistol bore up when drawing....however there is a completely safe way to draw a pistol from a cross draw that only breaks the 170 rule for a part of a second ( it is impossible to draw any pistol from a cowboy rig with out breaking the 170 for that part of a second no matter how you draw).
You can stand square to the targets & if you draw the cross gun with a bent wrist and keep the bore down for that part second and then swing the bore towards firing line it will never sweep another posse member behind you or at one of the loaders or unloaders.
It takes a bit of practice to acquire the muscle memory to do this without thinking about it and I have been called on it a couple times by a new TO so I have to do it in slow motion to prove the safety of it and the penalties have always been thrown out.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Listen, I don't doubt there are safe methods for wearing and using cross draw (when in the bush I prefer to wear my belt knife in this manner), all I'm saying is that I can't wear or perform it at my range and there is no talking to them about it. In their minds, that fraction of a second when the muzzle isn't in a safe direction is when a mishap will occur. Verboden.
 
HOWDY; at the BEEP I always stand as if to shoot a long gun, right foot back. The left cross draw gun is pulled upside down and is pointed down range on the draw. No different then the right side gun being pointed down range. I have showed the posse and RO how I do this on the first stage many times and once they see it done slowly then it avoids the green horns calling a sweep due to there not knowing or seeing what I did at speed. I used this with a pair of BISLEY griped Rugers, work fine, now with Ruger Blackhawks it is a bit slower but as I have used it for decades it works for me.
 
Alex McKr said:
Fingers284: An interesting technique. Not sure whether I've seen anyone use it. Though it does make sense. I generally prefer a double strong side draw. But, intend to try out your cross draw tip, in the near future. Worth learning(Always on the hunt to improve at the game).

Thanks for sharing

Al
Click to expand...

I should have mentioned that i purposely ordered my cross draw holster with no angle to the muzzle, the pistol hangs 90 deg to the belt. a swept back holster can sweep a posse' just by the shooter bending a bit to stage a long gun....reality is that allowing swept back cross draws kind'a negates the effectiveness or validity of any dance or 170 rule.
 
VICIOUS said:
HOWDY; at the BEEP I always stand as if to shoot a long gun, right foot back. The left cross draw gun is pulled upside down and is pointed down range on the draw. No different then the right side gun being pointed down range. I have showed the posse and RO how I do this on the first stage many times and once they see it done slowly then it avoids the green horns calling a sweep due to there not knowing or seeing what I did at speed. I used this with a pair of BISLEY griped Rugers, work fine, now with Ruger Blackhawks it is a bit slower but as I have used it for decades it works for me.
Click to expand...

Basically the method I describe. Very few cowboys use it but it has advantages to a top shooter, your always square with your first target at the draw.
 
Painkillers: That's too bad. But, not surprising. How is your club on holster use, otherwise? Some clubs tend to band that altogether, too. It could be difficult for you to live-fire train(always an important component to your training regimen), if that ability is removed.
 
Alex McKr said:
Painkillers: That's too bad. But, not surprising. How is your club on holster use, otherwise? Some clubs tend to band that altogether, too. It could be difficult for you to live-fire train(always an important component to your training regimen), if that ability is removed.
Click to expand...

Holster use is absolutely fine, but it must be strong arm, out of the waistband, and vertical (or near vertical, slight cant is fine.). One has to take a range offered holster course and pass in order to carry a holstered firearm. I've been a member for, it has to be two decades now, and I've only ever heard of two incidences whereby the shooter shot himself. Both times the round missed the leg and the guy shot himself in the foot. I know one of them, and yes, he said it hurt right away.
 
Twice in 23 yrs I have been TO and had the cowboy drop a loaded pistol, both used two strong side -butt to the rear rigs but shot 2-handed so one pistol always had to be transferred to the strong side hand and fumbling happened .... One of the drops was already cocked but no AD- "See ya later boys"
 
That's a point for shooting Double Duelist or Gunfighter mode - you're shooting from the hand that drew it and not needing to reholster or otherwise get it out of your hand until it's empty.

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, two-handed shooting was a 20th century innovation and one-handed was more authentic to the Cowboy era.

And no other discipline lets you shoot in stereo, so extra point for GF.
 
I ended up utilizing Rick Lawler from the Winnipeg area.

He's an olde school soldier who works his leather craft all by hand. Each piece is one of a kind and all hand stitched, the way gun rigs used to be made.

Can't wait. He'll ultimately be building a chocolate brown (traditional) buscadero rig, lined holster, 3" drop w/ 12 cartridge loops on the back and a stand alone (last round) on the front left hip.
 
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