Any Defiance deviant reviews or opinions?
- Thread starter Mike112288
- Start date
I'm not familiar with the 737R but I do have a Deviant Tactical.
Its a great action and I like it a lot.
I will strongly advise however if you go with the Deviant Tactical that you get the Sako style extractor. I didn't and it's my only regret.
The extractor that I got is the one the dealer told me is most common, but it's actually so long that it creates a slight problem cycling. When the bolt is fully retracted, the extractor slot protrudes out the back of the action, and that causes resistance when pushing the bolt forward. This would not be a problem if you get the Sako style extractor because its much shorter.
Get the fluted bolt because the flutes will depressurize the left side lug way in the event of a ruptured case.... Ask me how I know this can be a problem.
Most people don't realize fluting the bolt is a safety feature.
Its a great action and I like it a lot.
I will strongly advise however if you go with the Deviant Tactical that you get the Sako style extractor. I didn't and it's my only regret.
The extractor that I got is the one the dealer told me is most common, but it's actually so long that it creates a slight problem cycling. When the bolt is fully retracted, the extractor slot protrudes out the back of the action, and that causes resistance when pushing the bolt forward. This would not be a problem if you get the Sako style extractor because its much shorter.
Get the fluted bolt because the flutes will depressurize the left side lug way in the event of a ruptured case.... Ask me how I know this can be a problem.
Most people don't realize fluting the bolt is a safety feature.
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Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
I've never heard of a 737R.. But I am more than happy with my Defiance Deviant Custom Elite that I use in my F-Class T/R 308.
When I was researching actions couple years ago it had the options/features that I was looking for:
(1) 700 SA foot print (which I was currently using so I could transfer my chassis & aftermarket trigger)
(2) Option for single/horizontal feed (no magazine well needed for F class)
(3) Coned Bolt Option
(4) Integrated Rail 20 MOA
(5) Side bolt release (I can NOT stand how the 700s have the release as part of the trigger assembly)
Plus it has the Winchester M70 style – blade ejector. I wasn't shopping for this feature. This is a very convenient feature for "walking down the seating depth" to find the COAL where the ogive perfectly touches the lands. A guy only has to take out the firing pin & bolt shroud assembly. The additional step of taking out the ejector on a factory 700 action SUCKS. Because the Elite does not use a spring loaded ejector on the bolt face, you can easily find/feel the perfect spot where there is little to no pressure when closing the bolt.... i.e. you've found the lands.
Also, because of the blade ejector, the empty brass sits perfectly still on the bolt face until the very end of the cycle. It pops the brass out gently without smacking shoulders against the inside of the action.
Another feature that it had (which again was over-and-above what I was shopping for) was the 0.85 inch extended tenon.. extra rigidity for the very heavy straight taper barrel put on it. And because of the design of my existing Dolphin Chassis, I could extend the Devcon bedding surface beyond what a factory 700 action could allow.
And above all the "function goodness" it is a damn ###y-looking action as well (at least I think so).
When I was researching actions couple years ago it had the options/features that I was looking for:
(1) 700 SA foot print (which I was currently using so I could transfer my chassis & aftermarket trigger)
(2) Option for single/horizontal feed (no magazine well needed for F class)
(3) Coned Bolt Option
(4) Integrated Rail 20 MOA
(5) Side bolt release (I can NOT stand how the 700s have the release as part of the trigger assembly)
Plus it has the Winchester M70 style – blade ejector. I wasn't shopping for this feature. This is a very convenient feature for "walking down the seating depth" to find the COAL where the ogive perfectly touches the lands. A guy only has to take out the firing pin & bolt shroud assembly. The additional step of taking out the ejector on a factory 700 action SUCKS. Because the Elite does not use a spring loaded ejector on the bolt face, you can easily find/feel the perfect spot where there is little to no pressure when closing the bolt.... i.e. you've found the lands.
Also, because of the blade ejector, the empty brass sits perfectly still on the bolt face until the very end of the cycle. It pops the brass out gently without smacking shoulders against the inside of the action.
Another feature that it had (which again was over-and-above what I was shopping for) was the 0.85 inch extended tenon.. extra rigidity for the very heavy straight taper barrel put on it. And because of the design of my existing Dolphin Chassis, I could extend the Devcon bedding surface beyond what a factory 700 action could allow.
And above all the "function goodness" it is a damn ###y-looking action as well (at least I think so).
I've tried both and ended up with an Impact. They are smooth as butter and run in dirty conditions. Bonus is they come nitrided, they have a trigger hanger, and you can order a prefit barrel
Defiance is really nice too but they are tighter, no trigger hanger, and unless you buy a Ruckus you can't order a prefit barrel. Nitriding is an additional cost. If you shoot in areas with a lot of dirt or sand you may have issues
Defiance is really nice too but they are tighter, no trigger hanger, and unless you buy a Ruckus you can't order a prefit barrel. Nitriding is an additional cost. If you shoot in areas with a lot of dirt or sand you may have issues
Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
This is very true with my Elite. Like with most bench rest type actions, if the wind blows a few grains of sand into your rails, then you can really feel it and its no longer smooth as butter.
But since I am shooting F class I generally do not worry about such issues.
Impact for me
best I have run...love the trigger hanger and perfect allowances everywhere they need to run in the environments we do at times.
The defiance are a little tight for my liking and they don't allow you to order smaller bolt diameters to fix the issue. Uncoated as they come they tend to rust up a bit and if the lugs aren't kept greased up they can Gaul the surfaces.
Stock and carry the stiller..defiance..kelbys..impacts...surgeon..MacBros but my pick is the Impacts
best I have run...love the trigger hanger and perfect allowances everywhere they need to run in the environments we do at times.
The defiance are a little tight for my liking and they don't allow you to order smaller bolt diameters to fix the issue. Uncoated as they come they tend to rust up a bit and if the lugs aren't kept greased up they can Gaul the surfaces.
Stock and carry the stiller..defiance..kelbys..impacts...surgeon..MacBros but my pick is the Impacts
Another vote for Defiance!
I have a deviant tactical action for a 338 Lapua AI and the action is perfection. I ordered mine left hand eject, right hand bolt, single action, cone shaped bolt, 30moa rail, deep fluted bolt, and some options I’m forgetting about.
In my opinion no action is better, there are definitely equals but not strictly better.
I have a deviant tactical action for a 338 Lapua AI and the action is perfection. I ordered mine left hand eject, right hand bolt, single action, cone shaped bolt, 30moa rail, deep fluted bolt, and some options I’m forgetting about.
In my opinion no action is better, there are definitely equals but not strictly better.
I really like the Deviant Elite and BAT actions, both are buttery smooth and ###y but I'm not familiar with the impact.
Might depend on what type of shooting you plan to do as far as the kind of clearance you want for the possibility of dirt or the features you want. There are plenty of options available with both the Deviant and the BAT, not sure what impact offers. Left or right, port side, port size, single or mag fed, magazine port size/allowable cartridge OAL, rail elevation etc. There's quite a list. If you order custom you'll have to wait or you get what someone has in stock. I'd check Gary at Bighorn Sales.
For me the Elite is great for the already mentioned reasons above. The m70 extractor is nice as you can drop brass into your hand or send it clear out of your way by just how hard you bring the bolt back. The extended tenon was probably a benefit with a big heavy barrel, but throw a quality barrel on any custom action and I'm sure it'll shoot. The cone breach is nice but my feed ramp was sh@t. That was my only disappointment.
I love BAT also but they are made to a tighter tolerance and the environment could become a factor although I haven't had any real issues.
Coming Nitrided would always be a plus.
Might depend on what type of shooting you plan to do as far as the kind of clearance you want for the possibility of dirt or the features you want. There are plenty of options available with both the Deviant and the BAT, not sure what impact offers. Left or right, port side, port size, single or mag fed, magazine port size/allowable cartridge OAL, rail elevation etc. There's quite a list. If you order custom you'll have to wait or you get what someone has in stock. I'd check Gary at Bighorn Sales.
For me the Elite is great for the already mentioned reasons above. The m70 extractor is nice as you can drop brass into your hand or send it clear out of your way by just how hard you bring the bolt back. The extended tenon was probably a benefit with a big heavy barrel, but throw a quality barrel on any custom action and I'm sure it'll shoot. The cone breach is nice but my feed ramp was sh@t. That was my only disappointment.
I love BAT also but they are made to a tighter tolerance and the environment could become a factor although I haven't had any real issues.
Coming Nitrided would always be a plus.
Another vote for Defiance!
I have a deviant tactical action for a 338 Lapua AI and the action is perfection. I ordered mine left hand eject, right hand bolt, single action, cone shaped bolt, 30moa rail, deep fluted bolt, and some options I’m forgetting about.
In my opinion no action is better, there are definitely equals but not strictly better.
That's a nice looking build there. Never seen a left eject, right bolt gun. What's your theory for having that option?
Defiance makes a nice action. The best part about Defiance, is all the custom options available, if there are certain features you want incorporated into your action. For the most part, if you want it, they can build it. No other custom action manufacturer that I know of has as many options as Defiance. As others have mentioned, they are generally built "tighter" then other actions - the tight tolerances can certainly cause issues with debris in the field, and applying a coating that has any thickness will exasperate the issues. My first PRS rifle was a GAP rifle with a Defiance action - in really windy and dusty conditions I would have to wipe the bolt down after every couple of stages just in order to keep it running. It got so bad that I could barely keep it lubed, and the lugs ended up galling. I've since gone to a Mausingfield for my PRS rifle, and that action handles adverse conditions exceptionally better. If you do end up with a Defiance, I would recommend a surface treatment like nitride. Avoid Cerakote. If you shoot mostly from a bench or "square range", and if you're not planning on using the rifle for extended periods in adverse conditions, then it's really not that big of a deal.
Here's a video that show's a GAP rifle with Defiance action getting pretty gummed up in the field. Too much dust/debris, especially with Cerakote, commonly causes the issues exhibited in the below video:
Another potential issue with Defiance is that the lug abutments are smaller then other actions. Not a big deal with SA cartridges, but could potentially present setback issues with heavy use magnum cartridges such as a .338LM. My .300NM is built with a DLC'ed and polished Defiance action. It's incredibly slick, and I've really enjoyed the action for this purpose. It doesn't see adverse conditions for extended periods like my PRS rifle, so it's ability to handle debris hasn't really been tested, and for it's purpose it's not so much of a concern. If you are going to use the rifle with LA high pressure cartridges (say 33 or 37 XC, or even .338LM or similar) and/or use in the field for extended periods at a time, the Surgeon actions would probably be a better candidate.
Impacts are built to be pretty resilient in the field. They eat dust and spit it out. They come nitrided, which is an excellent surface treatment option. The trigger hanger is a nice feature as it allows you to "time" the trigger to the action, creating a nicer interface between trigger and action which results in the action "feeling" nicer. Just keep in mind that some stocks/chassis may need some slight modifications to allow for the trigger hanger to fit, though more and more stock and chassis manufacturers are building their equipment to accommodate this feature. They are built to such exacting tolerances, that pre-fit shouldered barrels are being built for them - this means that you can order a barrel to your door and install yourself. No need to send off to a gunsmith. However, the new Defiance Ruckus (and I believe Tenacity) allows for this as well. The Defiance doesn't, because it has so many different custom options available that can change headspace. However, if you send your action off to a gunsmith once, they can save your specs on file and use those in the future to spin up barrels without having your action in hand. There are no custom options available for the Impact action - they come as they are. But they are one of the nicer renditions of the R700 2 lug push feed actions, and I'm not really sure what you would want to change on them anyways.
As far as extractors go, the mini M16 extractor is commonly considered one of the better and more robust/reliable extractors available for push feed R700 type actions. I don't know anyone that would consider the Sako extractor better then the mini M16 extractor, but if that's your preference, then Defiance would be better able to accommodate that.
Here's a video that show's a GAP rifle with Defiance action getting pretty gummed up in the field. Too much dust/debris, especially with Cerakote, commonly causes the issues exhibited in the below video:
Another potential issue with Defiance is that the lug abutments are smaller then other actions. Not a big deal with SA cartridges, but could potentially present setback issues with heavy use magnum cartridges such as a .338LM. My .300NM is built with a DLC'ed and polished Defiance action. It's incredibly slick, and I've really enjoyed the action for this purpose. It doesn't see adverse conditions for extended periods like my PRS rifle, so it's ability to handle debris hasn't really been tested, and for it's purpose it's not so much of a concern. If you are going to use the rifle with LA high pressure cartridges (say 33 or 37 XC, or even .338LM or similar) and/or use in the field for extended periods at a time, the Surgeon actions would probably be a better candidate.
Impacts are built to be pretty resilient in the field. They eat dust and spit it out. They come nitrided, which is an excellent surface treatment option. The trigger hanger is a nice feature as it allows you to "time" the trigger to the action, creating a nicer interface between trigger and action which results in the action "feeling" nicer. Just keep in mind that some stocks/chassis may need some slight modifications to allow for the trigger hanger to fit, though more and more stock and chassis manufacturers are building their equipment to accommodate this feature. They are built to such exacting tolerances, that pre-fit shouldered barrels are being built for them - this means that you can order a barrel to your door and install yourself. No need to send off to a gunsmith. However, the new Defiance Ruckus (and I believe Tenacity) allows for this as well. The Defiance doesn't, because it has so many different custom options available that can change headspace. However, if you send your action off to a gunsmith once, they can save your specs on file and use those in the future to spin up barrels without having your action in hand. There are no custom options available for the Impact action - they come as they are. But they are one of the nicer renditions of the R700 2 lug push feed actions, and I'm not really sure what you would want to change on them anyways.
As far as extractors go, the mini M16 extractor is commonly considered one of the better and more robust/reliable extractors available for push feed R700 type actions. I don't know anyone that would consider the Sako extractor better then the mini M16 extractor, but if that's your preference, then Defiance would be better able to accommodate that.
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The gun is basically too heavy to shoot unless it is off the bench or prone, so when I lay out my gear I will put my ammo on the left side. This way when I cycle the action with my right hand I pick up the spent case in my left and replace it with my left. This way I never need to cross over my rifle and makes it a lot easier to stay in the scope on target at long distances and my brass never hits the ground.
The left port is not needed if you run ammo out of a magazine.
I use a Defiance Deviant Elite with a fluted bolt on my main PRS gun. I think it's a great action. It's been used in everything from pouring rain, to snow, to blowing dust and I've yet to have an issue. At the end of a particularly dusty or ####ty day, sure, it's not as smooth as it was at the start but I've never noticed anything while actually shooting. I just wipe down the bolt at the end of the day and lube the bolt's lugs with white lithium grease and all is good. My only regret is that I didn't get it DLC'd or nitrided but I needed it in a rush and wasn't willing to wait.
I don't have an Impact 737 but I have handled a buddy of mine's and it's super slick. The fact that it comes nitrided and can take shouldered prefits is a big benefit as well. That the guys at Insite speak super highly of the Impacts says volumes as well. The only reason I don't have one is that I already have 4 different bolt actions and the next one I get will most likely be another Deviant Elite solely to have parts commonality between my main and backup match rifles (current backup is an ARC Nucleus).
Op, you can't go wrong with either, I don't think. The Impact might save you a few bucks though vs an optioned out Deviant.
I don't have an Impact 737 but I have handled a buddy of mine's and it's super slick. The fact that it comes nitrided and can take shouldered prefits is a big benefit as well. That the guys at Insite speak super highly of the Impacts says volumes as well. The only reason I don't have one is that I already have 4 different bolt actions and the next one I get will most likely be another Deviant Elite solely to have parts commonality between my main and backup match rifles (current backup is an ARC Nucleus).
Op, you can't go wrong with either, I don't think. The Impact might save you a few bucks though vs an optioned out Deviant.
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Mike112288,
Not to highjack your thread but here are some more questions for the experts and users, regarding the Deviant (Tactical) action, for big and long cartridges like the .300 PRC and the .300 NM :
- What about the bolt nose options : Flat, Recessed, Control Round Feed - especially Control Round Feed ? What to use for what ?
- And what about the .750" bolt body option, useful, useless, not worth it ?
As far as I can see, Nitriding is a must, no ? I live in Eastern Canada - meaning no dust problem - but also meaning wet conditions/humidity/cold weather problems(s).
Not to highjack your thread but here are some more questions for the experts and users, regarding the Deviant (Tactical) action, for big and long cartridges like the .300 PRC and the .300 NM :
- What about the bolt nose options : Flat, Recessed, Control Round Feed - especially Control Round Feed ? What to use for what ?
- And what about the .750" bolt body option, useful, useless, not worth it ?
As far as I can see, Nitriding is a must, no ? I live in Eastern Canada - meaning no dust problem - but also meaning wet conditions/humidity/cold weather problems(s).
Defiance
DEFIANCE ...built a custom 6.5x47Lapua and after waiting 6 months for the build to be completed and shooting it for a few weeks, SOLD IT
When I worked the action it produced a grinding noise at bridge area where it did not mate with the bolt smoothly.
I spent a lot of time polishing without success.
Sent it back to the gun shop and when it came back to me there was no improvement.
I phoned and talked to someone at DEFIANCE ...they were surprised and blamed the gun shop.
The gun shop owner came to my house for another inspection and said nothing could be done.
I own a BAT and have had handled BARNARDS...many factory Sako's , Tikka's, Brownings….never had this before.
The "grinding" noise annoyed me ...I had to get rid of it.
It affected me so much I couldn't even shoot the darn thing.
All that wait time and all that money spent ...huge disappointment !!
DEFIANCE ...built a custom 6.5x47Lapua and after waiting 6 months for the build to be completed and shooting it for a few weeks, SOLD IT
When I worked the action it produced a grinding noise at bridge area where it did not mate with the bolt smoothly.
I spent a lot of time polishing without success.
Sent it back to the gun shop and when it came back to me there was no improvement.
I phoned and talked to someone at DEFIANCE ...they were surprised and blamed the gun shop.
The gun shop owner came to my house for another inspection and said nothing could be done.
I own a BAT and have had handled BARNARDS...many factory Sako's , Tikka's, Brownings….never had this before.
The "grinding" noise annoyed me ...I had to get rid of it.
It affected me so much I couldn't even shoot the darn thing.
All that wait time and all that money spent ...huge disappointment !!
Wow that sucks.... oooks so nice tho. I chose the impact precision action and it is so incredibly smooth. My bighorn tl3 is smooth and nice looking but the impact has an edge when it comes to how the bolt runs in the action. I would say go get an impact action at insite arms!! They did a super job on my barreled action in 223
