Any experience with Sellier and Bellot Special Slug Sports?

wasa

wasa

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Was in Tillsonburg Gun shop the other day and picked up a few boxes of Sellier and Bellot "Special Slug Sports" 12 gauge shotgun slugs based on the price (about $25 for a box of 25). Haven't taken them to the range yet, but was going to put them through my 1970s era Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer (smooth barrel, no choke, iron sights). S&B's website has these slugs exiting the barrel at 410 m/s with a 28 gram slug, and if I can do my math correctly that's 1345 ft/s and 437.5 grains. Online calculators claim 1738 ft-lb of energy.

https://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/products/shotgun-shells/sporting-single-slugs-for-shotguns/detail/89/

I did read https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1635960-Unofficial-12ga-Slug-Penetration-Comparison?highlight=penetration where user 0faustus0 had a great post about slugs penetrating spruce boards, and the S&B slug only penetrated 3 boards (that sucks!). Some would claim that if the slug/bullet goes through the animal then you are wasting energy (vs if the slug/bullet stays inside the animal you have "used" all of its energy).


Random website claims you want a minimum 1000 ft-lb of energy for deer. Anyone actually shoot one of these slugs at a deer? I've used Winchester Super-X 12 gauge slugs before (1600 ft/s hence 2487 ft-lb) but they kill my shoulder with the recoil and are definitely more expensive. Sighting in my shotgun at 50 and 25 yards means I'm throwing a lot of slugs downrange, and I want to practice more than once or twice a year.

I'm sure some people will say "shot placement" is the only thing you care about, and I know it's legal to shoot a deer with a 410 slug (Ontario), which has only 784 ft-lb of energy. We've all heard stories of "grandpa" shooting a deer with a 22 LR back in the days (200 ft-lb of energy).

Thoughts on this product that I bought 3 boxes of? Target practice only, or lower recoil short range hunting ammo?
 
Bought 250 of them for target/sports shooting. They aren't meant for hunting, more a reduced recoil round. Good accurate slug for the purpose.
 
Here is my experience with the Sellier & Bellot Sports slugs.

I have used those quite a bit in the past couple of years, and I have to say I like them for practice, plinking, sighting in ... etc. They are a low recoil slug and my shoulder thanks me. They are in fact my go to practice slug.

However, they are not the most accurate slug according to my tests. I can still get decent groups at 50 meters ... and I mean groups that I would still feel comfortable hunting big game with at that distance. However, I would not attempt a shot at game further out. And I have tested the accuracy of those slugs out of several of my shotguns ... and I always come to the same conclusion.

Personally, I use those S&B slugs for practice .... etc. ... and for hunting I switch to the Federal Truballs ... both shoot to the same point of aim at 50 meters out of my 870 shotguns. But the Federal Truballs are much more accurate .... I can shoot clover leaves at 50 meter with the Federal TruBall .... but I can't do that with the S&B ...

In my mind the S&B is a 50 meter slug .... whereas the Federal Truball is 100 meter one ....!!!

And penetration ... well, you read my slug penetration test. Personally I believe those S&B slugs still have enough power for deer hunting ... but I have no actual (factual) experience with that regard ... and to back that statement up ...

One other observation .... I realized that they do not expand (flatten) like other foster slugs do ... so wound channel would probably be smaller (my guess) ...
 
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A visual comparison .....

Here what the S&B Sport slugs look like when shot into a sand bank at 50 meters:

SandB_Slugs_after_shot.jpg




And here what a higher velocity (full power) foster slug looks like ... again shot into a sand bank at 50 meters:

Foster_Slug_flattened.jpg
 
medvedqc said:
looks like a brenneke copy.
Click to expand...

Medvedqc, ... yes the S&B looks like a Brenneke copy .... but after closer examination it is not really a Brenneke copy. The slug is not as solidly built as a Brenneke ... and it is hollow at its base. It resembles more a Foster slug with a plastic tail wad attached.

Here a picture comparing a Brenneke shot into wood and the S&B.
The two slugs to the left are Brennekes ... and the second from the right is the S&B (the tail wad got stripped while the slug traveled through the wood):

Recovered_Slugs.jpg


Full test report is here:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1635960-Unofficial-12ga-Slug-Penetration-Comparison
 
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Thanks to 0faustus0 for all of the slug information. I was also pondering last night the comparison to a shotgun slug and a muzzleloader. I own a CVA Wolf and according to the PowerBelt ballistics, the 444 grain copper clad flat point (closest I could find to a 12 g slug at 437 gr) has a muzzle energy of 1380 ft-lb (100 gr Black Powder equivalent load). The S&B slug has more muzzle energy than my muzzleloader, and a larger diameter (0.729" for slug, 0.499" for PowerBelt). My rifled barreled Wolf (with scope) is very accurate at 100 yards, although I have not shot a deer with it. At 25 or 50 yards, would you use the single shot muzzleloader, or the 3-shot shotgun with S&B slugs? Personally, I'm bringing the muzzleloader as I'd rather have the option of being able to hit a target at 100 yards as my Ithaca is only accurate to 30-40 yards (for me at least).

I'm hoping that 0fastus0's comment about Federal TruBall having same point of impact as the S&B slugs. I do have 10 rounds of TruBall, and once I sight in the shotgun with S&Bs I will through a couple of TruBalls downrange to see. Both guns are going on my fall hunt, with the muzzleloader being my "main" treestand gun.
 
As mentioned above they are good for hitting paper or plinking. They seem to be a more readily available reduced loads. I prefer the Remington Managed Recoil Slugs but they can be hard to get. Sail carries them but most times they are out of stock. The Cambridge, Ontario store was out of stock for over 1 year on them. Seems that most stores keep the S&B in stock most of the times and you can purchase them in larger boxes. Either way your shoulder will thank you if you are going to be doing a lot of 12 gauge shooting.

I have a Derya MK12 and I haven't found a round that didn't function properly in that gun. Really fun gun to shoot. Obviously any of my pumps are no problem as well.
 
wasa said:
...
I was also pondering last night the comparison to a shotgun slug and a muzzleloader.
...
Click to expand...


Wasa, that is interesting .... I was thinking along similar lines .... and compared the S&B slug to muzzle loaders ... I only went a bit further back into history .... lol

For me a 12ga smoothbore shotgun is in it's essence a modern Brown Bess musket when it comes to the ballistics.

------------------------------
Brown Bess
Caliber: .75 smoothbore
Bullet weight: ca. 545 grains (round ball)
Muzzle Velocity: ca. 1,000 fps
------------------------------
S&B Slug
Caliber: .73 smoothbore (12ga)
Bullet weight: 437 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 1,345 fps
------------------------------

So, ... to me it looks like the S&B slug has pretty similar ballistics to a round ball fired from a Brown Bess musket.

And now I am wondering, .... how many thousands of deer were killed with a Brown Bess and during the 100 years that it was Britain's standard military long gun? (It seems over 4 million Brown Bess guns were built)

And I am wondering, if at the time (mid 18th century) .... if I had something more powerful at my disposition ... would I have used it? Probably!!!!

Today, we have better slugs available to us for hunting .... So, I would agree with the comment from rifleman338.

rifleman338 said:
Most guys buying these S&B slugs are using them for IPSC shotgun. Much better choices if you plan to hunt with a slug gun.
Click to expand...

A modern high velocity Foster slug ... that flattens on impact ... will dump much much more energy into a deer ....
 
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And just to give you an idea ..... here is the sort of group I am getting from the S&B Sport slug at 50 meters. This is from an 870 Police with fixed improved cylinder.

870P_Ghost_Rings_slugs_50m_3group.JPG



And this is the sort of group I am getting from the same gun ... but with federal Truballs .... same distance, 50 meters:

Federal_TruBall_Slug.jpg



And this is at 100 meters with the Federal Truballs:

870_Police_Ghost_Rings_100_Meters_TruBalls_LowRes.jpg
 
Adding this picture .... this is an S&B Sport slug ... and as one can see from the picture ... the slug is hollow like a Foster slug .... whereas the Brenneke (original Brenneke) has a pretty solid center base ....

SandB_Sport_Slug.jpg
 
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I saw some Commamder 3.5in 1 and 3/8oz slugs at the store. Had to buy a few. Haha. Give those a try!

1960fps if i recall correctly. 1 3/8oz. Jeeez
 
For affordable hunting slugs you can watch sales at Tenda, by the case. Try to get Federal Power-shok at 200$/250 or Challenger Magnum or Truball at 250$/250.
 
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