Any hope for Cowboy Action in Prince George BC?
- Thread starter Tudenom
- Start date
Cariboo Lefty
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kamloops BC
Tudenom
If there is anything I can do to help email me. cariboolefty@shaw.ca
I am the match director for Palmers Gulch here in Kamloops, and I have built targets and designed stages for longer than I want to think about. You may want to take the time to attend Palmers Gulch as it is one of the largest matches in Canada, it is on the July long weekend and would give you some idea of what you are in for if you are successful. If you get something going post it here, I would love to attend if possible.
If there is anything I can do to help email me. cariboolefty@shaw.ca
I am the match director for Palmers Gulch here in Kamloops, and I have built targets and designed stages for longer than I want to think about. You may want to take the time to attend Palmers Gulch as it is one of the largest matches in Canada, it is on the July long weekend and would give you some idea of what you are in for if you are successful. If you get something going post it here, I would love to attend if possible.
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Another plug for Lefty's Palmer's Gulch event. A superbly run show and a total hoot of a great time.
Tudenom, a lot of the fun inherent in CAS is the eye candy of the stage setup. But that takes time and lots of strong backs to build up. Don't feel like you need to dive in with both feet encased in concrete. The club down here in Hope just started CAS. As I understand it they've go precious little eye candy and only enough targets to set up two stages at a time. They shoot those two then move a few things around and shoot two more, then move 'em around a little more and shoot the last two.
Besides, building up the set buildings and building parts is sort of like decorating the living room. You want to look around and sort of establish a theme. Then scrounge a bunch of free material and use that as the basis. For example down this way the Red Mountain Renegades found a source of cheap material through a member or buddy at a sawmill where they set aside the rounded slabs that are cut off before the resulting square is sent in for cutting. I guess it normally goes to the chipper for strand board or the like. We got enough that many of our set facades are planked in these "log cabin" like siding slabs and the loading shacks are made with it as well. So a lot of times the set facades and overall feel for your area can be set by what you can get for free or real cheap.
But the first thing is to get enough target steel and shotgun fallers to be able to set up two or three stages. That'll help hold down the initial cost and complexity. Then grow as the clan grows by adding set pieces and more targets.
I'd suggest you also try to think ahead on the design of the stands and other stuff. You may not need a lot of room at first. But if the designs are cumbersome and don't lend themselves well to stacking nicely then the storage area can become a real tangled mess quick like.
As for shot gun fallers I've had to bend over to lift and set them. And trust me on this, a low slung tightly belted gun rig feels a lot like a girdle or tight corset when you're trying to bend over. A design that either sits up a touch, or doesn't let the paddle fall all the way to the ground or that has a foot pedal or something of the sort to allow the targets to be reset by not needing to bend all the way down to pick up the paddles would be VERY nice.
Tudenom, a lot of the fun inherent in CAS is the eye candy of the stage setup. But that takes time and lots of strong backs to build up. Don't feel like you need to dive in with both feet encased in concrete. The club down here in Hope just started CAS. As I understand it they've go precious little eye candy and only enough targets to set up two stages at a time. They shoot those two then move a few things around and shoot two more, then move 'em around a little more and shoot the last two.
Besides, building up the set buildings and building parts is sort of like decorating the living room. You want to look around and sort of establish a theme. Then scrounge a bunch of free material and use that as the basis. For example down this way the Red Mountain Renegades found a source of cheap material through a member or buddy at a sawmill where they set aside the rounded slabs that are cut off before the resulting square is sent in for cutting. I guess it normally goes to the chipper for strand board or the like. We got enough that many of our set facades are planked in these "log cabin" like siding slabs and the loading shacks are made with it as well. So a lot of times the set facades and overall feel for your area can be set by what you can get for free or real cheap.
But the first thing is to get enough target steel and shotgun fallers to be able to set up two or three stages. That'll help hold down the initial cost and complexity. Then grow as the clan grows by adding set pieces and more targets.
I'd suggest you also try to think ahead on the design of the stands and other stuff. You may not need a lot of room at first. But if the designs are cumbersome and don't lend themselves well to stacking nicely then the storage area can become a real tangled mess quick like.
As for shot gun fallers I've had to bend over to lift and set them. And trust me on this, a low slung tightly belted gun rig feels a lot like a girdle or tight corset when you're trying to bend over. A design that either sits up a touch, or doesn't let the paddle fall all the way to the ground or that has a foot pedal or something of the sort to allow the targets to be reset by not needing to bend all the way down to pick up the paddles would be VERY nice.
The IPSC section has props and materials that we will be willing to let the Cowboy section use. We also have a plan to build RO shelters that are on skids that can be used as buildings for stages for both IPSC and Cowboy(at the black water range)
This is a fun match, I miss it. You never know, might pick up a cowboy gun again someday
Thanks for all the suggestions and tips guys. I totally understand the girdle thing and will keep your suggestions in mind BCRider. It's good to know I have support from other CAS groups, I'll definately keep in touch with the folks from Quesnel and from Kamloops and ty to make as many events as I can this year, even if it's just to watch and learn.
Doon, I'll have to make a Timmies run and bring some coffee over before Xmas so we can have a melding of the minds. It sounds like you've put a bunch of thought into this already!
The table at the gun show sounds like an excellent idea and it would be a good time to show off some gear/costumes. I'll add that to my list of things to do!
Doon, I'll have to make a Timmies run and bring some coffee over before Xmas so we can have a melding of the minds. It sounds like you've put a bunch of thought into this already!
The table at the gun show sounds like an excellent idea and it would be a good time to show off some gear/costumes. I'll add that to my list of things to do!
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CAS in PG
I'm with the 'Rope Burn City Bounty Collectors' in Quesnel. We've bent over backwards trying to get CAS up and running at PG, 100 Mile and Williams Lake.
We held a clinic here last spring and 3-4 shooters came down from PG. Last time we saw them ..... so somebody dropped the ball.
We'd like to become the hub for CAS in the central interior of BC , going to monthly shoots elsewhere and inviting everyone to our annual 'Run Amok' event the 3rd weekend of July - after the 'Palmer's Gulch' event at Hefley Creek on the 1st of July long weekend. That one is a 'must do' for most of us.
We even have an indoor range for winter shoots - rifle & pistol, no shotgun. But we could do an outdoor "Cowboy Clays" event.
If you're ever gonna see it happen, somebody is going to have to 'Cowboy Up' and git 'er done.
Todd (aka PJ Hardtack)
I'm with the 'Rope Burn City Bounty Collectors' in Quesnel. We've bent over backwards trying to get CAS up and running at PG, 100 Mile and Williams Lake.
We held a clinic here last spring and 3-4 shooters came down from PG. Last time we saw them ..... so somebody dropped the ball.
We'd like to become the hub for CAS in the central interior of BC , going to monthly shoots elsewhere and inviting everyone to our annual 'Run Amok' event the 3rd weekend of July - after the 'Palmer's Gulch' event at Hefley Creek on the 1st of July long weekend. That one is a 'must do' for most of us.
We even have an indoor range for winter shoots - rifle & pistol, no shotgun. But we could do an outdoor "Cowboy Clays" event.
If you're ever gonna see it happen, somebody is going to have to 'Cowboy Up' and git 'er done.
Todd (aka PJ Hardtack)
Cariboo Lefty
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kamloops BC
KK, I would love to shoot with you again. You are welcome anytime.
Cariboo Lefty
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kamloops BC
Tudemon
You can always use IPSC b-zones for shotgun knockdowns.
You can always use IPSC b-zones for shotgun knockdowns.
If the PG CAS folks would work with the IPSC guys, you could get a good thing going by promoting the SASS 'Wild Bunch' class. This lets you use 1911s, '97s and they just approved Win M12s as well. Right now, the Victoria club is the only club in BC doing this.
If we get it going here in Quesnel, we'd admit any period gun from the turn of the century - Mauser Broomhandles, Lugers, Colt New Service, etc. If they need hardball ammo, no problem by offering a mix of steel and paper targets. Of course, the usual CAS revolvers, carbines and SxS's are in.
The rules require a 1911 (any auto loader) to have 5 rds in the mags, hammer down on an empty chamber. Exposed trigger guards are OK as a result. I shot one of my 1911s in a CAS stage and in the time it took to rack the slide to chamber a round, the single action shooters were already on their second shot. And shooting a 1911 'Duelist' with a 200/230 gr bullet is a far cry from "Pop-pop-pop'' using two hands with a wimp CAS load.
Download "Wild Bunch For Dummies" for the complete rules. They've got it all worked out.
If we get it going here in Quesnel, we'd admit any period gun from the turn of the century - Mauser Broomhandles, Lugers, Colt New Service, etc. If they need hardball ammo, no problem by offering a mix of steel and paper targets. Of course, the usual CAS revolvers, carbines and SxS's are in.
The rules require a 1911 (any auto loader) to have 5 rds in the mags, hammer down on an empty chamber. Exposed trigger guards are OK as a result. I shot one of my 1911s in a CAS stage and in the time it took to rack the slide to chamber a round, the single action shooters were already on their second shot. And shooting a 1911 'Duelist' with a 200/230 gr bullet is a far cry from "Pop-pop-pop'' using two hands with a wimp CAS load.
Download "Wild Bunch For Dummies" for the complete rules. They've got it all worked out.
So you basicly want to turn Wild Bunch into "IPSC in a costume" , the reason that a fair numbers of Cowboy action shooters went route of cowboy action was to get away from the BS that is shovelled by some of the gamers that shoot that discipline. Stick with the basic WB manual as posted on the SASS website, modify it to your local requirements but stay away from including IPSC into your matches.
I've spent the last 14 years shooting CAS and prior to that I shot IPSC for 10 years in 2 provinces where I learned that IPSC stood for "Irrational People Sqabbling Constantly".
Well I think the key thing is to use turn of the century equipment like Sharps pointed out. As long as it's only club matches. Getting set up in cowboy action shooting is an expensive proposition and probably the biggest hurdle. If someone with a mk vi webley in the original chambering wants to give her a try then we should have a mechanism in place to handle that. Probably the best place to start is wild bunch. Modern pistols and rifles are out of the question.
It's definately worth some thought and it might encourage new shooters to take the plunge and buy into a couple of SA revolvers.
I agree that we must be dilligant and watch out for IPSC creep though.
It's definately worth some thought and it might encourage new shooters to take the plunge and buy into a couple of SA revolvers.
I agree that we must be dilligant and watch out for IPSC creep though.
Garand
Looks like you brought your definition of IPSC into CAS along with you ... ;>)
I'm also an IPSC-burnout, my roots going back to when it was "Combat Pistol Shooting" as per Jeff Cooper. I loved it when it had some basis in reality. When optical sights took over I opted out and went into CAS when the .44s and .45s ruled, shooting real loads with 240/250 gr bullets. Then that evolved into 'IPSC in Cowboy Boots' when the .38 Spl. (and lower) took over with powder puff loads.
Our guys are still 'old school' and we also enjoy BP to the point where we have an annual BP-only event. No fudging of loads there!
I'd LOVE to go the Full Monte with WB, but until I generate more support, I'll happily work with the IPSC shooters to get both going stronger locally and in Prince George. If I can get some of them to play with us, the cross over might be a good thing. If nothing else, the level of CAS gun handling might go up. The IPSC Black Badge course is still arguably the best gun handling training out there, and there is no CAS equivalent.
The world of guns is larger than the USA and movies like the "Wild Bunch". If Clint Eastwood can shoot a Broomhandle in "Joe Kidd", that's Cowboy enough for me.
Looks like you brought your definition of IPSC into CAS along with you ... ;>)
I'm also an IPSC-burnout, my roots going back to when it was "Combat Pistol Shooting" as per Jeff Cooper. I loved it when it had some basis in reality. When optical sights took over I opted out and went into CAS when the .44s and .45s ruled, shooting real loads with 240/250 gr bullets. Then that evolved into 'IPSC in Cowboy Boots' when the .38 Spl. (and lower) took over with powder puff loads.
Our guys are still 'old school' and we also enjoy BP to the point where we have an annual BP-only event. No fudging of loads there!
I'd LOVE to go the Full Monte with WB, but until I generate more support, I'll happily work with the IPSC shooters to get both going stronger locally and in Prince George. If I can get some of them to play with us, the cross over might be a good thing. If nothing else, the level of CAS gun handling might go up. The IPSC Black Badge course is still arguably the best gun handling training out there, and there is no CAS equivalent.
The world of guns is larger than the USA and movies like the "Wild Bunch". If Clint Eastwood can shoot a Broomhandle in "Joe Kidd", that's Cowboy enough for me.
I've got my first CAS revolvers as well - a pair of Ruger Vaqueros in .44 mag. Bought separately as one dates from the era of 'one gun'. Don't shoot them as much any more, as I done got sophisticated and got into Colt clones that shoot loose. If you can break a Ruger, you're too dumb to have a gun, IMHO.
My wife went the same route, but now is there for the shooting as well. I gave her my Marlin .357 carbine and she bought herself a pair of Uberti 3/4 size Stallions in .38 Spl.
She liked my .44 B-92 so much, she bought one of them and I gave her a pair of Ruger NM .44 Spl. Flat Tops. She played with them and went back to her .38s. I then bought her a .38 '71 Open Top and she turned up her nose! I love it to the point where I bought another and a Richards-Mason to boot.
The current "Guns of the Old West" has an article on turn-of-the-century DA revolvers. A lot of them were carried and used by old time gun men. As a club, we decided that if and when we get WB up and running, we'll admit any revolver of a pattern that existed before 1914. We want to encourage rather than discourage participation, at the risk of offending the purists.
My wife went the same route, but now is there for the shooting as well. I gave her my Marlin .357 carbine and she bought herself a pair of Uberti 3/4 size Stallions in .38 Spl.
She liked my .44 B-92 so much, she bought one of them and I gave her a pair of Ruger NM .44 Spl. Flat Tops. She played with them and went back to her .38s. I then bought her a .38 '71 Open Top and she turned up her nose! I love it to the point where I bought another and a Richards-Mason to boot.
The current "Guns of the Old West" has an article on turn-of-the-century DA revolvers. A lot of them were carried and used by old time gun men. As a club, we decided that if and when we get WB up and running, we'll admit any revolver of a pattern that existed before 1914. We want to encourage rather than discourage participation, at the risk of offending the purists.
Well it took 20,000 rds through one of my . 44 mag Ruger Vaqueros before the transfer bar broke. As for rifles, in .44 mag, I have been using a pre- Remington Marlin M1894S as my main match rifle. My backup is a 1906 mfg Winchester M1892 in .44 mag. My wife finally settled on and uses a B-92 in .357 and 2 "original style" Vaqueros in .357.
