any idea what or how old this is? new pics

infideleggwelder

infideleggwelder

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found this in my favourite second hand/antique store. lock is missing, bore rusty but strong rifling. carving is ok, not stellar, but not amateurish. the barrel is inlaid with silver, can't see in the photo. barre; held in place by a pin thru the stock. the gun is about 18 inch long and close to .50
any idea? i think maybe 17th century?



there is letters in silver near the breech, API or IPI.
the wood is also inlaid with silver, there is a bit left.
 
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I was told by reenactor that natives used them as a weapon of surprise concealed behind their leg as they're walked up.... in around of the war of 1812. This would have been a flintlock most likely? Looks to me like a similar piece but later since it's rifled. Only a guess. Definitely old. Would be worth restoring.
 
a few other things, trigger is thin, but not flimsy. there seems to be a name in the silver, but those photos did not work out. there is a lack of storage for a ram rod, and the barrel might not fit the stock as well as it could, but it is old. there is a flash hole, kind of angled up toward the front. i`ll try a few more
pics when i go back to the store.
 
drslav said:
I was told by reenactor that natives used them as a weapon of surprise concealed behind their leg as they're walked up.... in around of the war of 1812. This would have been a flintlock most likely? Looks to me like a similar piece but later since it's rifled. Only a guess. Definitely old. Would be worth restoring.
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you are thinking of a "blanket gun" they are just cut down trade guns
 
infideleggwelder said:
i just think late 1700s early 1800 because of the similarities to this one

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...ger-Rifle-Conservation-Repair-and-Restoration
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Ah, sorry welder. When you said 17th century I thought you meant like 1682 (all smooth bores as far as I know), 100 years later and we begin to understand and utilize rifling. (18th century)
By the 19th century (200 years ago) rifles are common though not in a military sense as Infantry and tactics still called for volume, volley firing. Rifling interfered with an armies necessity to be able to fire 4 or more rounds in a minute. There were "Rifle" Regiments during the war of 1812, whether or not they were ever actually supplied with rifles is of course another question.:p
I think you have found the original source (German) for what you have, but someone [probably] much later on shortened the barrel and modified the stock.
 
The British had rifle regiments from the Napoleonic wars onward but they were not generally used as line infantry but as skirmishers. Their purpose was to move out ahead of the main body and gall the French with accurate fire then withdrawing when the enemy became too numerous. The British had the only infantry that engaged in firing drills with live ammo regularly and a good man could fire four or five rounds a minute under fire. Rifles were slower to load as mentioned but accurate.
 
plinker 777 said:
Ah, sorry welder. When you said 17th century I thought you meant like 1682 (all smooth bores as far as I know), 100 years later and we begin to understand and utilize rifling. (18th century)
By the 19th century (200 years ago) rifles are common though not in a military sense as Infantry and tactics still called for volume, volley firing. Rifling interfered with an armies necessity to be able to fire 4 or more rounds in a minute. There were "Rifle" Regiments during the war of 1812, whether or not they were ever actually supplied with rifles is of course another question.:p
I think you have found the original source (German) for what you have, but someone [probably] much later on shortened the barrel and modified the stock.
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yes, I saw that after I read your first post. realized what I actually typed. it is a really cool piece, probably not fireable, but cool just the same
 
You know, that's darn neat. Board members have restored far worse to look great without losing any historical details. I'm thinking specifically of the IMA nepalese P53's, sniders, martini's and brunswick rifles. I believe there was even a thread on here about restoring a brunswick from worse than that to quite pretty?

Anyways, for that price you're set - very unique find!
 
infideleggwelder said:
yes, I saw that after I read your first post. realized what I actually typed. it is a really cool piece, probably not fireable, but cool just the same
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"probably not fireable"...I dunno 'bout that. If you think about it, it's just a tube with a wooden handle on it. Guy's are doing miracles (well, miracles to us mere mortals) with duplicators where the stock is concerned, a new lock, your choice to convert to cap lock or flint, clean up the barrel inside and out and you're off to the range!
Before a stock is made my major concern would be the breech plug. Is it secure? if it isn't loose, I say with some work you're laughing.
Now that I think about it, once the rifling is cleaned up I'd be inclined to use a Minnie ball or R.E.A.L. with that very pronounced rifling and ditch the patched ball altogether.
 
My 2 cents......yes a flinter judging by side flash pin hole (should be able to Magiver a lock on it).....probably started life not that short ? someone cut down the old musket and spent a bunch of hours caving the stock. I doubt its from the 1700s......but cool conversation piece or wall hanger.
 
infideleggwelder said:
whats minimum non restricted length? have RPAL, just don`t know the rules cause i don`t own any. i know in its present condition, it is just a club and not restricted, and fairly certain it meets antique status.
i do entertain the thought of a complete restoration, but that will take a while
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As long as it is an antique, you are OK with no RPAL as it is a frontstuffer. You don't need any license, for that matter. Just don't rob any stores with it, or shoot bullets off in town for the 1st of July. For your own reference, were it a breechloader (with cartridges), there is a sticky at the top of this forum that 'splains when you need to worry about licensing issues.

Nice score
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
As long as it is an antique, you are OK with no RPAL as it is a frontstuffer. You don't need any license, for that matter. Just don't rob any stores with it, or shoot bullets off in town for the 1st of July. For your own reference, were it a breechloader (with cartridges), there is a sticky at the top of this forum that 'splains when you need to worry about licensing issues.

Nice score
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I feel it would be an obsolete cartridge, but it looks to predate that by quite a bit. Good find!
 
infideleggwelder said:
whats minimum non restricted length? have RPAL, just don`t know the rules cause i don`t own any. i know in its present condition, it is just a club and not restricted, and fairly certain it meets antique status.
i do entertain the thought of a complete restoration, but that will take a while
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I don't think restricted status applies, but the minimum overall length is 26 inches to be non-restricted (12 inch shotty with butt stock type of thing). Just for your reference.;)
 
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