Any Info On S&W Military & Police?

When did the S&W come out in .380 caliber? I thought that was an auto round. The .38 S&W round was about as useless a cartridge as ever issued to a military. Italy, Normandy and N.w. Europe and my uncle never fired his once - preferred to let his Sherman do the talking.

Stay Safe
 
Canuck44 said:
When did the S&W come out in .380 caliber? I thought that was an auto round.
Click to expand...

The .38S&W cartridge has/had many names. ;)
The British and Canadians designated it the Cartridge, .380" MkIIz :-

380.jpg


I wouldn't consider the .38S&W as "useless".... ;)
 
Well maybe not but as a manstopper it was pretty enemic. Edmonton City Police used it for years. We had a robbery at one of our branches in the mid 60's. Two cops rolled up and fired a dozen shots at the car the Bg's were in. The bullets bounced off the rear window of the car. NONE penetrated the vehicle. The force then switched over to .38spl thence I believe 9MM.

For what it was supposed to be designed for I think the word useless pretty much describes it. I have a Webley from the Edmonton City Police and it is fun to shoot but pretty light stuff really even when one handloads it. The original round nose bullet was not very effective other than for extremely short ranges. Better than throwing rocks, LOL, but not much better. The .455 Webley/Colt was a much better round asa a manstopper and if we are talking WW11, the Americans has the .45acp which, along with the 9MM the Jerrys had were even better yet.

A piece of history and fun to shoot though. Must get a S&W revolver for the cartridge one day. That said have a few others on my wish list ahead of it though.

Merry Christmas

Stay Safe and get involved or all this may be an acedemic exercise if the Lieberals get in.

Bob
 
I had a close examination of a S&W MP 40 at the NTOA in Las Vegas in September. The pistol looked promising at first. It felt good and pointed great. I liked the way they copyed the SIG Pro's, tough, removable and massive steel inserts in the frame. Grip was nice and like was said before, interchangable for size.

The big dissapointment was when I tried to strip it down. I locked the slide back and rotated the frame mounted take-down lever down-ward. (Very nice touch and copyed from the SIG P220 series.) The S&W rep dove across the table and lost his mind. After taking the gun from me he took a slender plastic tool that was contained inside the rear grip of the frame behind the mag. It just rotates and locks into the grip. Then with use of a flashlight he showed me how to "carefully" rotate a small, tiny, (pathetic) sear spring down-ward into the mag well. This disengages the firing mechanism of the weapon so the slide can be released and taken off of the gun without breaking it. (Turns out he only had one MP sample and didn't want to break it during the show.)

What this allows for is that the gun does not have to be dry fired before stripping like a glock (or sigma).

Neadless to say I was apalled. Just when I thought that S&W had finally made a good gun I was disapointed yet again.

Just my 2 cents. I didn't get to shoot it but it did feel great so I imagine it is a good shooter.

Rich.
 
Was that a production model or a prototype? I'm hoping they fixed that before the final version.... I hope so, anyway. I'm looking forward to this one too.
 
It was a prototype, but the only changes that were to be made were going to be texturing of the grip surface. The internals are going to be identical.
I was also advised that Windsor PS is switching to this gun from their S&W 5900 series .40 cals.
Rich.
 
The M&P Made for a 100 years eh

Without checking my S&W book my guess is that the S&W M&P Revolver and later called the Model 10 has been made for almost a 100 years in at least seven or more variations.
The last one I saw used was a Model 10-7 which was NRA Excellent for $200.
The S&W M&P was my first ever revolver.
I brought a minty S&W M&P in 1961 on my 21st birthday, the first day that I could legally own a pistol.
I have had a pistol ever since. I learned to pistol shoot with the M&P. It was a commercial model from the 1930's that had English proof markings on it,probably issued to a pilot or despatch rider. Very smooth double action. With either the 148 or 200 grain bullers velocities were anemic. I used to hunt jack rabbits with it from 1961 until 1963 when I traded it off for a Browning HP pre WWII Model.
Quite simply it wouldnt "anchor" a jack like the 9mm and later a 357 would.
Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus as well as the fact that in the 1960's you could hunt with a handgun in Ontario as long as you belonged to a pistol club.

The 200 grain bullet 38S&W was made to tumble but I dont see it as a really great round compared to the best chambering of all for a Model 10 the 38 Special or .357.
The 1910-20's 1930's era S&W M&P trigger actions are handfitted and very smooth in DA fire.
At $200 and change for a perferctly good one why not get two?
 
Rich LPS, what exactly were you appalled about? Was it the fact that you tried to incorrectly disassemble a pistol that you had no permission to disassemble and got caught? :rolleyes: If you were truly interested in this pistol you probably would have picked up the Dec 05 Guns and Ammo magazine and would have had some knowledge on the takedown of this pistol.
 
Silverback,

I'm just stating the disadvantages of the disassembly procedures related to this weapon. What Firearms Companys should be striving for is simplicity and ease of use, which includes disassembly.

The trade show associated to this training seminar is not open to the general public. The products displayed are presented for handling and demonstration purposes. This is not your average "Gun Show" where there is little or no control over who handles and abuses products. Attendees are encouraged to handle, shake, rattle and provide the Companys with critical feedback on their products.

The disadvantages related to this weapons disassembly are obvious. It is very easy to break the weapon and render it "useless" during disassembly. (Let alone loose or damage the tool in the grip of the weapon.) It also is a fine motor skill to perform disassembly on this weapon. Not Soldier proof at all in these respects.

Although I enjoy some of the Firearms publications out there and purchase them from time to time but I pefer to go hands on with products before casting too much judgement. (I'm not sure if the December Guns and Ammo was even out in early September when I examined the S&W MP?) When you get a chance to handle one of the new S&W MP's you might agree with my assessment.

Rich
 
Rich LPS, thanks for your reply, having not actually seen one of these pistols and only going by the article and pictures I can't see how you could very easily break a steel part with the plastic tool which is the grip palm swell insert retaining pin. From the article all you have to do is push down a lever with the pin then remove the slide, there is a picture of the frame with the slide off and the lever is very visible in the picture and does not look to be that fragile as it appears to be made of stainless steel. My guess is that the only reason for using the plastic pin is so that you are not putting your finger into the pistol while the slide is locked back to the rear which is the first step in the disassembly before you push down the lever then allow the slide to go forward to remove it. It is clear from your first post that you are not a fan of S&W firearms anyway and I would guess that SIG's are probably your choice in pistols so I will take your report with a grain of salt and as you said I will make my own judgement when I get to handle a M&P myself.
 
Silverback, you are quite right in your assessment. I am not a big S&W fan. Having carried the S&W 5946 for about 10 years I've learned that it has it's limitations. Having said that it's not that bad of a gun, it's just that so many other brands are better. I want to be a S&W fan and thought that the company had finaly "nailed it" with the MP's. Although the take down procedure is not that bad for experienced members like our selves, I foresee problems with the masses. The "gun guys" in any organization will do well and adapt to what ever they are given but the "non-gun guys" will have issues and break it if it is breakable. We have switched to SIG's in limited numbers and are much happer with them compaired to the S&W's.
I have owned several handguns over the last couple of decades (and presently own a few) and am no stanger to putting lead down range (4x Alberta Provincial IPSC standard & production chanpion). I just wish that S&W could have engineered the MP to avoid this take down procedure, then I feel they would have had "the whole package". Like I said before, it feels good and should be a good shooter.
Rich.
 
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