Any Interest in .45-75 WCF, Fellas?

Dirk72

Dirk72

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First off, to dispel any erroneous presumptions: I am talking about the orginal .45-75 bottleneck WCF cartridge - not the straight walled .45-70. That is NOT a misprint! :)

My problem is that I bought one of those Uberti 1876 lever gun reproductions in this caliber - and brass is either insanely expensive, or not available at all. Are there any shade-tree obsolete ammo makers in Canada that can furnish this stuff at a half-sane price? If not... I will have to make it myself, but would have to invest in a mini-lathe and fab the cases from a parent caliber. Has anybody done that? Is it worthwhile

Any info or thoughts you might have are sincerely appreciated. Are their other obsolete calibres a guy could make like this?
 
Starling is now making 348 Win cases that should be fairly easy to convert. Rustywoods has stock. It's not cheap but much better than preformed cases that are going to be stateside and difficult to access.
Maybe Starline 50cal cases would be good but thinning rims is a little more technical than annealing and opening the necks. It can be done though. Perhaps the reproductions are built with a particular parent case in mind and accomodate the thicker rims?
 
Maybe this not the advice to give. But I've thinned ( and shortened) 45 Schofield to run in 455 Webleys. It was pretty easy to do; Bench vise, file and a Mircometer. Got so's I didn't even have to turn the press off to change casings towards the end.
Ain't hard by a darn sight.
 
Dirk72 said:
First off, to dispel any erroneous presumptions: I am talking about the orginal .45-75 bottleneck WCF cartridge - not the straight walled .45-70. That is NOT a misprint! :)

My problem is that I bought one of those Uberti 1876 lever gun reproductions in this caliber - and brass is either insanely expensive, or not available at all. Are there any shade-tree obsolete ammo makers in Canada that can furnish this stuff at a half-sane price? If not... I will have to make it myself, but would have to invest in a mini-lathe and fab the cases from a parent caliber. Has anybody done that? Is it worthwhile

Any info or thoughts you might have are sincerely appreciated. Are their other obsolete calibres a guy could make like this?
Click to expand...

I have a bunch of 45-70 that came as part of a package deal that are started as bottleneck forming - see the attached pics. If yiou are interested let me know.

Retreever

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Dirk,
Do you know if your gun was one of those made with the oversized chamber? The Uberti chamber or the Winchester chamber? I'll be following this regardless.
 
I had a Uberti 1876 Serial Number W3262X in 45-75 and it had original cartridge dimensions chamber. I have a few original 76 in 45-75. I make my brass from 50-90 starline brass - some runs have a thinner rim and work better. Always looking for original 1876s.
 
last_cowboy said:
Dirk,
Do you know if your gun was one of those made with the oversized chamber? The Uberti chamber or the Winchester chamber? I'll be following this regardless.
Click to expand...

I am not sure. I have heard that there are chamber issues. Right now I have barely adequate stock of Jamison 45-75... but I love this round so dang much, I am going to need replacement brass at some point. The Jamison brass works fine... but is no longer available. How do you know if the gun has the uberti or winchester chamber? A casting?
 
ken1989 said:
I had a Uberti 1876 Serial Number W3262X in 45-75 and it had original cartridge dimensions chamber. I have a few original 76 in 45-75. I make my brass from 50-90 starline brass - some runs have a thinner rim and work better. Always looking for original 1876s.
Click to expand...

After a deep dive I am finding that the majority of guys are using 348 Win brass - and it sounds like a PITA to form. A few do the 50-90, but from what I read, the rims need to be trimmed and turned down. A few said that the 50 Alaskan is the easiest: trim, anneal, and run them through the 45-75 dies.

If any of you have done this - please... please let me know. I have never case formed before, and if I could I would buy proper factory brass... but nobody is at all interested in offering it at anything approaching a reasonable price.
 
The .45-75 case was essentially a .50 caliber straight-walled case of that day, necked down to .45 caliber -

e7qFTn.jpg


If one could find .50-95 Winchester cases, they would be perfect for reforming into .45-75 ... but of course that is akin to suggesting somebody convert platinum into silver ... :rolleyes:

As already mentioned, although the rim diameter needs to be reduced (and the rim thinned a bit, potentially) cases for the .45-75 can be formed from .50-90, or even .50-70 although the latter would likely end up a tad short and need the bullet seating depth fiddled with to end up with with a correct OAL ...

The reason .348 Winchester cases re-formed into .45-75 end up with the noticeably narrower diameter just ahead of the rim is because the .348 is undersized compared to the .45-75, and the base web is so thick ahead of the rim that its .553" diameter simply cannot expand out to the full .45-75 base diameter of .564" -

1KwjQV.jpg


I understand that the .50 Alaskan cartridge, which has also been mentioned, is based on the .348 Winchester case, so this same problem likeley occurs. The other problem with the .348Win case, of course, is that its rim diameter is a bit undersize compared to the .45-75 rim ...

My .45-75 Chaparral Model 1876 NWMP carbine is one of their earliest-production rifles, and thankfully has not exhibited any of the quality control problems reported with so many of their later ones before they ceased production. My first batch of cartridge cases were re-formed for me from .348Win, but then I was able to get a supply of the .45-75 cases produced by (or for) Chaparral Arms - note the WRA CA headstamp (Winchester Repeating Arms / Chaparral Arms) - which are sized specifically for their chambers and have worked very well for me ...

uOSR4q.jpg
 
One interesting accoutrement of the NWMP associated directly with their .45-75 Winchester carbines was a woven-web "Anson Mills" belt with cartridge loops, acquired by the Force in 1885 from the Massachusetts firm of Thomas C. Orndorff. According to "Arms & Accoutrements of the Mounted Police 1873-1973", the 200 belts were "olive green" webbing - either a pattern being tested by the US Navy, or based on that pattern - with the type of sheet-brass "H-buckle" commonly seen on Mills belts of that era, although without any embossed insignia. The US Army already had many such woven-web cartridge belts in use for their .45-70 rifles - all of which were either very dark blue or "khaki tan" in colour - but, of course, the loops of such belts were too small for the fatter body of the 45-75 cartridge. However, the primary-issue rifle of the US Navy at that time was a Remington rolling block rifle chambered for the .50-70 cartridge ... so the loop size of the Navy belts was perfect for the .45-75 cartridge. In the photos in "Arms & Accoutrements" in which examples of these belts are seen, it is clear that they also have some smaller loops for revolver cartridges to the right of the belt buckle. I arranged to have such a belt made for me by a chap in the US who makes web cartridge belts, including belts with loops sized for those who shoot .50 caliber Sharps rifles and the like ...

heOG35.jpg
 
Well thanks, Grant!!!

The info helps, because I am getting conflicting info on this. Apparently some of the guys were saying that all you had to do was run the 50 Alaskan into the 45-75 dies, anneal and trim - and you are off to the races. The case specs for the Alaskan are even closer to the 45-75 than the .348 according to the info I have, and one of the fellas claimed there was no need for turning down rims and cases.

I love the the info about the NWMP too. Hey - I'm looking at your avatar... would you be familiar with a certain trouble-making Private McKenzie? The one with a fondness for British muzzle loaders? The guy is a walking museum and a darned fine cinematographer too...!
 
I assume you mean Rob Deans/BritishMuzzleoaders/Rob Enfield ... if so,yes, I am personally acquainted with him and have shot with him ... https://youtu.be/lay6ansrLzw

Yes, the .348Win/.50Alaskan rim diameter is less than the .45-75 rim diameter, so no trimming would be needed there. (Not sure if the extra rim thickness would cause any problems ...)

The problem I anticipate that the .50 Alaskan shares with the .348 Win. is the smaller diameter of the case body in the heavily webbed area directly ahead of the rim - i.e. expansion of the case walls to the .564" diameter of the .45-75 will only occur ahead of the thick web, leaving that "coke bottle/wasp waist" appearance in that area. (I suspect that may result in some weakness in that area and the possibility of case separation at some time in that area.)
 
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Also, wouldn't .50 Alaskan cases need to be trimmed to length? I've never loaded it, but I see the case OAL is given as 2.1" ...
 
Yes they would have to be trimmed to length; as an intermediate handliader i can deal with that. What I can't do is chuck up a case in an expensive metal lathe and start shaving rims and diameters.I wish I could do that but for me its not in the cards. Yes, I've heard about the Coke bottle effect too. Some guys say they had no problem with it... I guess the only way to find out is to jump in and actually do it...
 
Dirk72 said:
Yes they would have to be trimmed to length; as an intermediate handliader i can deal with that. What I can't do is chuck up a case in an expensive metal lathe and start shaving rims and diameters.I wish I could do that but for me its not in the cards. Yes, I've heard about the Coke bottle effect too. Some guys say they had no problem with it... I guess the only way to find out is to jump in and actually do it...
Click to expand...

Man...it's not hard to thin rims. Throw the case in the chuck of a drill press...hand tight so's not to crush it ( I use a PA benchtop unit...150 $ IIRC). Turn it on a slower speed setting and get a file and a digital micrometer. A few careful passes on it whilst spinning...stop. Hit it with the micrometer...couple more passes with the file ( count the passes...it'll come in handy after a few).
Pretty soon you know that ### number of passes is just shy of the final desired measurement. Finish it out and add it to the pile.
So you wreck a case or two...you are shooting at the end of the journey.
Yeah, I did it with a 45 Schofield...but the logic is the same...just might need a bigger chuck, lol
 
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