If you feel you need more bang for your bucks ..(pun intended) goto the 300wsm or 325 wsm (if some of your game are wearing flak jackets). The WSM shoots flat and fast with less recoil than the 300wm. Or just select you cartidges carefully, get some range time, know your yardage and use your .308 ... they won't know the differnce (you can only kill an animal so dead, anything more than dead.... is still dead just messier)
Any point in the .300 Win?
- Thread starter Hugegoat
- Start date
Sorry but that's not possible.....same bullet going the same speed with the same amount of powder in the same weight gun equals the same recoil. I fear you are a victim of creative advertising. Only tangible difference between the WM and WSM is long vs short action.
northwoodslivin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- London,Ontario
If you havent already picked a rig up. I would highly suggest getting into reloading if your considering these big thumpers. Because it will cost you a boat load to shoot if you choose to go that big.
Sorry, but it is possible, the WSM uses less powder to do the job. Less powder, less recoil. I fear you are a victim of "back in my day" syndrome. The WSM cartridges are superior to their long action counterparts in every way, not by as much as some may think, but more than people locked into "old school" thinking will admit.
Now that that is over with... the difference between the two, in actual use, assuming the rifles weight is the same, will be barely noticeable to most shooters.
And at any rate..... I would still use a .308, I was trying to make a point about overkill with the Flak jacket comment in my previous post .... very few game animals in Canada wear them.
This is from Chuck Hawk's rifle recoil table... so you don't have to take my word for it...
As you can see the slightly faster WSM cartridge, even in a lighter rifle, has less recoil
In .270 (where the WSM really shines) the felt recoil may actually be slightly higher than the .270 winchester. This is due to a higher muzzle velocity increase (100fps or more) than is seen on the .30 cal models.
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if you can feel .4 foot pounds of recoil in your shoulder- well you know the rest- far as i'm concerned, what's in my safe are only 2 calibers- the 308, and the 338- if you're going to pack all the steel and wood for a 300, youu might as well go for the 338 and get the most out of the rifle
Murphy.177
Member
- Location
- England (Soon to be Canada)
When you all mention the .338 cal are you talking about the .338 Federal or one of the Mag .338 cals??
Thank you.
Thank you.
In the 30 cal range, I'd buy the 300WSM for a hunting rifle, but I'd buy a .308 or a 300winmag if I was into precision shooting. There's a lot of data in the older calibers to help a shooter.
I don't see a reason to buy a heavier round in Norther America for most of our hunting. Now a 45/70 can be a fun bear gun, and a 375H&H or a .416 or a 460 might be fun, but really are only needed for your dream safari to Africa.
If you only have a .308, I'd keep practicing. If you only have a limited budget and plan to do any deer hunting, something smaller in the 6mm range might be a wiser plan. 6.5x55 sweede, 25-06, .243 can be great deer guns and a lot easier for most people to shoot.
The .308 will be plenty for Deer, Moose and Bear. The only people who need to believe otherwise include my wife and my sister in law, or my Brother in Law and I will never get to buy more rifles!
I don't see a reason to buy a heavier round in Norther America for most of our hunting. Now a 45/70 can be a fun bear gun, and a 375H&H or a .416 or a 460 might be fun, but really are only needed for your dream safari to Africa.
If you only have a .308, I'd keep practicing. If you only have a limited budget and plan to do any deer hunting, something smaller in the 6mm range might be a wiser plan. 6.5x55 sweede, 25-06, .243 can be great deer guns and a lot easier for most people to shoot.
The .308 will be plenty for Deer, Moose and Bear. The only people who need to believe otherwise include my wife and my sister in law, or my Brother in Law and I will never get to buy more rifles!
blacksmithden
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I own and reload a 300 win mag. I also cast my own bullets. The nice thing about the 300 is that you can load it from mild to wild. For my cast (lead bullet, home made, no jacket) I load it light for 100 meter target. For longer range stuff, I use a 180 grain jacketed bullets with a much higher charge to reach out to 700 meters and beyond. It'll make 8" diameter rocks explode into dust at 200 meters if you so choose.
With the cast bullets, it's recoil fells just a little less than a 30 30 lever action. You can go from there, to a point where it's kicking like a mule. It's a very versatile caliber.
With the cast bullets, it's recoil fells just a little less than a 30 30 lever action. You can go from there, to a point where it's kicking like a mule. It's a very versatile caliber.
LOL ........ Quoting Chuck Hawk, and dibbling over .4 lbs of recoil in rifles that are 4oz difference in weight is laughable.Sorry, but it is possible, the WSM uses less powder to do the job. Less powder, less recoil. I fear you are a victim of "back in my day" syndrome. The WSM cartridges are superior to their long action counterparts in every way, not by as much as some may think, but more than people locked into "old school" thinking will admit.
Now that that is over with... the difference between the two, in actual use, assuming the rifles weight is the same, will be barely noticeable to most shooters.
And at any rate..... I would still use a .308, I was trying to make a point about overkill with the Flak jacket comment in my previous post .... very few game animals in Canada wear them.
This is from Chuck Hawk's rifle recoil table... so you don't have to take my word for it...
As you can see the slightly faster WSM cartridge, even in a lighter rifle, has less recoil
I doubt very much anyone here, esp you, would be able to tell the diff between a 300WSM and a 300WM in identical rifles with identical bullets at identical velocities. No "back in my day" syndrome here, just a wide eyed case of buying into the marketing drivel w/o rational thought input.
If you wanna buy into that crud, go for it, but leave Chuch Hawks and splitting hairs for those who will listen.
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Am I missing something or isn't it more like 2 lbs of recoil (almost 10% in a lighter rifle)?
Regardless I think they're both great cartridges, but I wouldn't buy one in a 6lb rifle. The price and availability of ammo, and the variety of bullet types would be more important to most shooters who don't reload in these calibers.
When I first bought my .270WSM, cartridge selection sucked, but the WSM's are more common today and cartridge selection has become much better. Except for the 7mm WSM.
Regardless I think they're both great cartridges, but I wouldn't buy one in a 6lb rifle. The price and availability of ammo, and the variety of bullet types would be more important to most shooters who don't reload in these calibers.
When I first bought my .270WSM, cartridge selection sucked, but the WSM's are more common today and cartridge selection has become much better. Except for the 7mm WSM.
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Well, I think we can all agree that now that SuperCub, with his enormous post count has weighed in on the subject, we can all agree I was wrong. Thanks for setting me straight on this, I was really off base.
I should mention before I go that 25.9-23.8 = 2.1lbs or almost 10% less recoil from the 1/4lb lighter rifle, at roughly the same speed, with the same bullet.
As for your "esp you" comment, well, you know what you can do with that.
I never claimed I could tell the difference, and I actually wrote it was unlikely anyone could. So, I see you reading and math skills are about equal.
Another case of "anyone who says something I don't agree with ( or doesn't word it simply enough for me to understand) must be an idiot"
For those who may actually care to learn something new, 10% isn't a big difference, and you may not feel it on a single shot, but after firing a box full, your shoulder may appreciate the 10%
My "enormous post count" means absolutely nothing to me nor anyone else, nor does it make one an expert. Quoting Chuck Hawks doesn't make one an expert either.
My math is fine, but I did fail to add to my original statement that I was refering to "recoil velocity" when typing out the reply.
Having said that, I still say that there are no shooters that could tell the diff between an 8lb 300WSM and and 8lb 300WM with similar bullets and velocity.
"Learning something new" is one thing, but reinventing the wheel and claiming yours is "more round" is another.
The short mags are good cartridges, but they have pretty much duplicated what we already had and marketed it in another package. IMO the 270WSM is the best of the bunch allowing a shooter to have the lighter short action rifle with ballistics that better the older 270Win, but then that what the 284Win did many years ago as well.
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superd222
CGN frequent flyer
I took my 338 Win Mag out on the weekend for a day of groundhogging - it was awesome!!!
It was the first time out with this one hunting /shooting anything other than paper.
No problems with recoil at all! The rifle only weighs 6.75lbs
200gr Noslers going 3000fps ---> groundhog devestation
Anything bigger than a 308 or 30-06 is not really necessary - this topic has been well beaten - for hunting (other than the great bruins) in Canada.
Just be careful of what and where you're shooting those heavy and tough bullets - there's lots of energy there!!!
Go for whatever turns your crank. If you're going to reload and want to keep an inventory of 30 cal projectiles only - choose a 300 ___Mag. Otherwise, pick something and have fun!!!
It was the first time out with this one hunting /shooting anything other than paper.
No problems with recoil at all! The rifle only weighs 6.75lbs
200gr Noslers going 3000fps ---> groundhog devestation
Anything bigger than a 308 or 30-06 is not really necessary - this topic has been well beaten - for hunting (other than the great bruins) in Canada.
Just be careful of what and where you're shooting those heavy and tough bullets - there's lots of energy there!!!
Go for whatever turns your crank. If you're going to reload and want to keep an inventory of 30 cal projectiles only - choose a 300 ___Mag. Otherwise, pick something and have fun!!!
DirtyOldSix
Regular
- Location
- Durbanville, South Africa
One of my hunting buddies (a pH) uses a 338 Winmag. Hunting with him I have seen one shot kills ons Eland, Zebra, blue Wildebeest and Gemsbuck.
A 30 calibre lungshot will cause large game to run up to 800 yds. A 338 calibre lungshot will throw most large antelope off it's feet with a good chance that it won't get up again. He uses 225 gr Hornady Interbonds at 2900 fps.
A 30 calibre lungshot will cause large game to run up to 800 yds. A 338 calibre lungshot will throw most large antelope off it's feet with a good chance that it won't get up again. He uses 225 gr Hornady Interbonds at 2900 fps.
@wheee the WSM vs. WM all over again.
300WSM was to duplicate the performance of a 300 WM in a short action.
The WSM's more efficient case design can create the same pressure curves and peaks with less powder than a regular WM. Otherwise they are pretty much the same. I personally like the long action better, but that is a personal opinion.
Think about what has changed in balistics since 1963.
1963: 300 Win Mag.
2001: 300 WSM
4 decades of refinements and powder development. Go give your heads a shake.
Compare these.
1970 Dodge Challenger, 426ci Hemi, 425HP, 425ft-lbs, 19-33 L/100km
2009 Dodge Challenger, 6.1L Hemi, 425HP, 425ft-lbs, 10-16 L/100km
nearly 40 years of technology. Same performance at 2x the efficiency.
300WSM was to duplicate the performance of a 300 WM in a short action.
The WSM's more efficient case design can create the same pressure curves and peaks with less powder than a regular WM. Otherwise they are pretty much the same. I personally like the long action better, but that is a personal opinion.
Think about what has changed in balistics since 1963.
1963: 300 Win Mag.
2001: 300 WSM
4 decades of refinements and powder development. Go give your heads a shake.
Compare these.
1970 Dodge Challenger, 426ci Hemi, 425HP, 425ft-lbs, 19-33 L/100km
2009 Dodge Challenger, 6.1L Hemi, 425HP, 425ft-lbs, 10-16 L/100km
nearly 40 years of technology. Same performance at 2x the efficiency.
Something isn't right with this picture. No animal should be able to tell the difference between a hole made by a .30 cal vs .338 cal, when it is through their lungs. The .338 may transfer a little more energy into the animal, but they should both be dead in far less than 800 yards, with similar shot placement.
