Any real advantage?

coleman1495 said:
Err no I think you missed my point on that one. My point is that the vast majority of magnum rifle owners are using guns that are beyond their ability. I realize that there are people that are capable of handling magnum rifles- I simply haven't seen one yet. I guess you could say I am not the one who needs to spend more time at the range.

Also you are preaching to the choir about handloading. I am well aware of the benefits and take advantage of them myself.
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My opinion may be unpopular, but I will somewhat agree with you, but not the sweeping generalization that the "vast majority" of magnum rifle owners can't shoot them.....

It has been my experience that there is a segment of the population that were good old .30-06 / .308 / .270 shooters that ran out and bought a .300 win mag when they first came out and were touted as the "latest and greatest" because they thought the magnum would make up for their lack of shooting skill.... These guys typically hit the range about September or so for a day or two.... And no, they can't shoot their magnum, but they couldn't shoot their .30-06, 270 or .308 either....
 
coleman1495 said:
Yep that sums it up. Out of all of the folks I see at the range I have yet to see a single person that can shoot a magnum caliber sporting rifle worth a darn. I am sure their is people who can, but if experience has shown anything the vast majority simply can't handle their magnum rifles. I would take a half decent shot with a plain caliber any day.

Also how does one practice with a 300 weatherby when it costs 5$ a shot? I guess reload but even still brass ain't cheap.
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Do you suppose that there are a bunch of hunters that can handle something like a 30-06; but somehow are unable to handle a 7 Rem, 264 Win, .240, 257, 270,7mm Weatherby or 270 and 7WSM. That seems odd when they all are sort of 30-06 level recoil plus or often minus a smidge.
 
Superbrad said:
My opinion may be unpopular, but I will somewhat agree with you, but not the sweeping generalization that the "vast majority" of magnum rifle owners can't shoot them.....

It has been my experience that there is a segment of the population that were good old .30-06 / .308 / .270 shooters that ran out and bought a .300 win mag when they first came out and were touted as the "latest and greatest" because they thought the magnum would make up for their lack of shooting skill.... These guys typically hit the range about September or so for a day or two.... And no, they can't shoot their magnum, but they couldn't shoot their .30-06, 270 or .308 either....
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Going to the range at the start of hunting season is a way to see some terrible shooting. But, these are the guys that are shooting deer at 30 or 40 yards on the side of the Forest Service Road so it hardly matters.
 
I think we need to distinguish between riflemen/shooting enthusiasts who hunt and hunters who couldn't care less about their rifles. Many hunters don't give much thought to their equipment and have no idea about the specific ballistics of their given caliber choice. Folks in the latter group are easy prey for the firearm industry and perpetuate the bigger/better/faster mentality currently in the hunting world.

As a gun enthusiast and gear junky I love seeing the new stuff but I primarily hunt with non-magnum .30 cals.

Patrick
 
To address the original question, anyone who thinks something like the 6.5 Swede (which is absolutely, perfectly capable of taking moose) will have the same effect on a moose or elk as a .300 Win.Mag. shooting a 200 grain Partition at 2975 fps which gives it a trajectory flatter than anything the Swede can do with any real moose bullet, has just not seen it happen enough. There is a decisiveness to the .300 that is absolutely real and useful in making that moose or elk travel less distance after the shot - and when hunting the "bigger than deer" game we have, that can be a real advantage.

The .300 must be shot well, but so must the Swede. I have seen magnum owners who fit the insulting generalization that they were magnum shooters that couldn't shoot, but I have seen the validity of the same generalization for "hunters" using any cartridge you can name. There IS an advantage. Anyone CAN learn to shoot magnum cartridges well. If you are willing to practice, you will find magnum cartridges do offer qualities that make them worth using. If you practice, you can find "standard" cartridges that will also work very well on moose and elk, and are all you ever need for deer, but to deny the ballistic advantages (both external and terminal) of bigger cases shooting heavy for caliber bullets is just wrong.

If what you want to do can be done with light for caliber bullets (I feel that is "deer and smaller game) magnums are just not necessary.
 
rral22 said:
To address the original question, anyone who thinks something like the 6.5 Swede (which is absolutely, perfectly capable of taking moose) will have the same effect on a moose or elk as a .300 Win.Mag. shooting a 200 grain Partition at 2975 fps which gives it a trajectory flatter than anything the Swede can do with any real moose bullet, has just not seen it happen enough. There is a decisiveness to the .300 that is absolutely real and useful in making that moose or elk travel less distance after the shot - and when hunting the "bigger than deer" game we have, that can be a real advantage.

The .300 must be shot well, but so must the Swede. I have seen magnum owners who fit the insulting generalization that they were magnum shooters that couldn't shoot, but I have seen the validity of the same generalization for "hunters" using any cartridge you can name. There IS an advantage. Anyone CAN learn to shoot magnum cartridges well. If you are willing to practice, you will find magnum cartridges do offer qualities that make them worth using. If you practice, you can find "standard" cartridges that will also work very well on moose and elk, and are all you ever need for deer, but to deny the ballistic advantages (both external and terminal) of bigger cases shooting heavy for caliber bullets is just wrong.

If what you want to do can be done with light for caliber bullets (I feel that is "deer and smaller game) magnums are just not necessary.
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I mostly agree with you, but don't write off light bullets in large cases too quickly. I've seen more spectacular kills that way than any other.
 
I think a lot of it is perception....... Slap the magnum monicker on something and the "perceived" recoil suddenly goes through the roof....... In reality, a .300 win mag given an equal weight bullet only produces about 15% more recoil over a .30-06......
 
Superbrad said:
I think a lot of it is perception....... Slap the magnum monicker on something and the "perceived" recoil suddenly goes through the roof....... In reality, a .300 win mag given an equal weight bullet only produces about 15% more recoil over a .30-06......
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What are you using for velocities when you calculate the recoil? I've got almost as many 30-06s as .300s and make the difference closer to 60% using my own loads and chronographed velocites and carefully calibrated shoulder.

2700 fps with 56 grains and 3150 with 75 to 81 grains depending.
 
.30-06 = 180 gr. @ 2700 = 20.3 foot pounds

.300 wm = 180 gr. @ 2960 = 25.9 foot pounds

So actually about a 25 - 30% increase.......

I didn't calculate it myself...... Just looked online at a recoil table......
 
I've found 3150 fps rather easy to get, 26" barrel helps. RL 22, H1000, 7828 will all do it. Book loads too. I'm actually seating the last of some welfare rounds right now.

On the other hand I've had many 30-06s struggle for 2700.
 
Dogleg said:
I've found 3150 fps rather easy to get, 26" barrel helps. RL 22, H1000, 7828 will all do it. Book loads too. I'm actually seating the last of some welfare rounds right now.

On the other hand I've had many 30-06s struggle for 2700.
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No doubt.... Extra case capacity is extra helpful when you get to choose what you want to fill it with.......

I was thinking more along the lines of factory ammo.... in line with my earlier thoughts in regard to the 1-2 day a year shooter.......
 
Dogleg said:
Do you suppose that there are a bunch of hunters that can handle something like a 30-06; but somehow are unable to handle a 7 Rem, 264 Win, .240, 257, 270,7mm Weatherby or 270 and 7WSM. That seems odd when they all are sort of 30-06 level recoil plus or often minus a smidge.
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I don't follow you on that one. None of the calibers listed are hard kicking rifle calibers.
 
It's laughable that someone would state that people who shoot magnums can't shoot them.
Most of my game is taken with a .308 but it actually boots pretty hard for a .308, light rifle and a solid but plate. My Sako 300wsm is a bit snappier but not by much. It's a heavier rifle with soft recoil pad...not a big deal at all.
The 35 Whelen with 250's is a bit more of a deal again over the 300wsm, but I guess it's not a magnum so I should be able to shoot it just fine.
You never see me at the range, I do all of my shooting in the bush. I load develop for everything at 300yds and practice free hand with all my hunting rifles at 200yds, even the "magnum".
I think saying I can't shoot because I own a magnum is a bit of a stretch.
 
Dake21 said:
I find it funny when somebody tells me I need a 300 win mag for deer. The new hot caliber looks all overrated to me.
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You need to hang out with Dogleg or Douglas for a few days. If your perception is that high velocity cartridges are overrated, perhaps you overestimate what's possible with a standard cartridge.;)
 
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