Any saving this cylinder?

The S&W forum has an example showing a similar problem with a model 27 that was repaired by “micro-welding” the worn and chipped areas and machining/filing off the excess to repair the ratchet stops. Yours looks like the teeth have to be totally replaced in spots, whether or not it would be economical to replace or repair would depend on 1. What does a cylinder replacement cost if available 2. What would repair cost and 3. Can you find a smith to do it.

What does the hand look like on the pistol and how did the cylinder get that way. Did someone attempt to “fix” it?

I have a second model hand ejector that the seller didn’t tell me that there was a .035” cylinder gap where someone had filed the barrel! Fortunately I can set the barrel back one thread which is .032 and have enough to clean up the rear face of the barrel. This pistol has one of the smoothest double action pull I have ever tried. I just have to find the time.
 
I think the key to can it be fixed is if you know someone who can mig or tig add material to build up what is missing plus a bit and then file the teeth back in. I also don't know the finer points of the difference and applicability of mig and tig welding but you need the one that does not leave eroded areas where the arc stops on an ordinary arc welder. As someone else mentioned, one big question is "what caused the damage in the first place? " Is it a replacement cylinder that someone has tried to fit in and if so, how loose is it on the pin that it rotates on ; ie does it wobble side to side? A big part of the question is do you know someone who is knowledgeable about that design of revolver and can tell you if it can be recovered

cheers mooncoon
 
snurge said:
I’d send it back to whoever sold it to you
That kind of thing needs to be mentioned
Click to expand...

I might second this, if you’re not handy enough to tackle this yourself you may find yourself at the mercy of others and good help is hard to find with these things. Whoever sold you this should have disclosed something about this.
 
I suspect that there is a non-welding way to repair that cylinder.
Make a base pin bushing that incorporates the ratchet star. This would require careful precision work, but should be do-able. At least there is no incorporated extractor system.
In addition to the cylinder misery, there is a problem with the cylinder pin and the missing front sight.

I sure hope you did not pay a premium antique surcharge on a revolver that needs serious repair work.
If this transaction was through the CGN EE, your trader feedback should report the non-disclosure of a major defect.
 
tiriaq said:
I suspect that there is a non-welding way to repair that cylinder.
Make a base pin bushing that incorporates the ratchet star. This would require careful precision work, but should be do-able. At least there is no incorporated extractor system.
In addition to the cylinder misery, there is a problem with the cylinder pin and the missing front sight.

I sure hope you did not pay a premium antique surcharge on a revolver that needs serious repair work.
If this transaction was through the CGN EE, your trader feedback should report the non-disclosure of a major defect.
Click to expand...

This was my first thought also but either way, machining a new star with bushing or re-machining a welded repair will prob be way more expensive than sourcing a replacement...unless you have a hobby machinist friend who works for coffee.
 
OUCH! That looks nasty. It looks like a replaced cylinder someone tried to make work by "adjusting" the teeth on the ratchet to time with the hand. That's the problem - even if you find a good replacement cylinder, it's not very likely that the ratchet is in time with the hand. Maybe if it was a S&W or Colt, yes, but an Iver Johnson not likely. These were not very accurate to begin with, and had to be hand-fitted at the time of assembly to time correctly. To make a new ratchet and insert it into the back of the cylinder is probably possible, but hardly worth the trouble. Same goes for building up the material and re-filing or milling. Anything is possible, of course, but I wouldn't bother, to be honest...
BTW - the drag line on the back of the cylinder would also indicate that the hammer nose does not retract properly to clear the base of the cartridge (as already stated).
Good luck!
 
Most any antique cartridge revolver these days will carry a hefty price tag.
Some of the ones that have been advertised have problems - but are still pricey
Replacement parts are essentially unavailable unless one gets really lucky.
Ones made 150-125 years ago for the mass market may have been serviceable when made, but over a century of handling, dry firing, general abuse has taken its toll.
I was just working on a couple of IJ Owlheads. Both in near new condition. 98+%. Either will hold a 2" square at 5m. Not bad given how small the grips are. Not easy to shoot. But, out of the box (and one was out of the box, complete with brush, etc.), both had issues. One had insufficient leade into the barrel, so it spit lead, while the other's firing pin was too sharp and pointed, piercing primers. I corrected both problems, but these guns were as new. A century of neglect and abuse would have made things much worse.
There is a .44 American Bulldog in the EE right now @$1795. With that kind of pricing, repairing the issues with the OP's revolver makes sense.
 
I would Mill it off , And Make a Press Fit & Pinned Ratchet Star..
But this option will cost MORE than the gun is worth...
As to make one from Scratch will take time..
And Almost 100%% The hand would need to be remade also.

I dont think you are going to find an replacment "In good shape", And even if you do... IT will not be a direct drop in all they are all fitted to each gun.
But if you can find the Hand & Cylinder you would have the best chance.
 
Anything is fixable either by adding material with welding or manufacturing a new ratchet star and installing it - neither will be cheap.

BTW - in case no one has said it yet - this is not safe to shoot until you get the timing checked even if the hand rotates the cylinder seemingly correctly.
 
There is a .44 American Bulldog in the EE right now @$1795. With that kind of pricing, repairing the issues with the OP's revolver makes sense.

thats rough, even at the price of $1790 depending on the repair cost and what the OP paid my guess is its not going to be worth it, the damage looks more like hammering than wear or filing, having 2 of these and both required work firstly the hammer pin scrape is likely the small lifter that moves the hammer back to clear the next round I had to hand make, took several until I got mine right, just takes time and a little at a time. even better if you have a second one to copy but of the 2 revolvers little can be exchanged due to how they were manufactured back in the 1890s.

the cylinder could be bored on a lathe, a new steel plug pressed in and then the teeth recut, problem is where does one cut the teeth, I repaired both of mine but not even close to this bad using tig torch and good steel filler, little at a time, once built up couple hours filing to get it just right, make a jig that the cylinder bore mounts and a rest for the file to guide it, this way all teeth are located the same.

in this case I would tig the best tooth left in place, file and fit to get it right, once happy build up the other 4,

if it were me it would be going back to the seller unless heavily discounted, one could easily spend 4 to 5 hours making the lifter and the cylinder another 10 by the time its working.
 
Not knowing the cylinder was that bad I paid $1500, I'm waiting on a response from the seller as it was not from CGN but GP.. hopefully we can come to some agreement

I did find 2 cylinders from numrich with the help of tiriaq. and ordered them both hoping something will work or at least give me measurements and point me in the right direction.
 
I have a lot of experience with tool and die, particularly in precision molding. Find a good pistol-smith and a shop that can do laser welding; should be easy to build this up, but will require fitting by the smith to recut the ratchet teeth for proper indexing.
 
Seems like the seller is dodging me now sadly. politely asked if he'd make good on some of the repair costs as this damage was not disclosed.

Guess you can't trust everyone these day's.

Add said good shape single and double actions both worked, find that hard to believe in the condition the cylinder was.

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Well you did all the right things here, if he won’t cooperate than the least he deserves is an honest review.

My first antique was a Colt 1877 Thunderer, and the ad read “Colt 1877 Thunderer 41 LC double action works.” Now as a newbie I read that as a working double action revolver. It wouldn’t hold #### in single action and what the seller was saying allegedly was it works in double action and then by absence of additional details assumed you either understood or asked anything more. I find antiques more than anything attract this sort of scheme however, and not that it makes it right, but it’s my understanding that a lot of guys selling privately are just going south or buying at auctions/shows to flip for profit online. This is fine but what I find is the private sellers are less than experienced gun owners and don’t have the know how or desire to know what they’re handling.

In the end my seller came through and sent me some parts to help me fix it. I’m sorry to see yours didn’t pan out but you did the right thing sourcing new cylinders.
 
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