anybody intrested in putting together something similar?

[Glock-a-maniac]

I think package guns, for the most part don't make a lot of sense. When you look at a package like this, at some point, there has to be money made somewhere and it's probably in the glass, rings and base, action and barrel.
The stock is about the only quality piece of the whole puzzle. All this package is missing is a plastic stock and they could really make a killing. That's not to say the barrel isn't 'ok' but you'll never catch a quality gunsmith flogging something like this and putting his name behind it. Especially when he's turning out precision firearms and demanding a healthy price. That's like BMW turning out an economy car made in Korea and putting their badge on it.
For a $1,000 or close too, I'd buy a Savage and then start saving for good glass. That way at least you're not buying something that down the road you regret buying. After all, in this day and age, being able to afford a $2,000 or even $2,500 rifle and scope is something that someone can actually save up for and have something to show for it.

Buy quality and be proud of it.

 

[Obtunded]

...Buy quality and be proud of it.

Amen!

 

[bclinehand]

This isn't a "precision rifle" to begin with. It is a factory rifle - that like all factory rifles is designed to look better than it actually is, with factory heavy barrel,a gross pink stock and a scope.

It doesn't mean it won't shoot, but I guarantee you will have just as big a chance of getting accurate (or not) results buying ANY factory gun. In other words, you can buy one of those cheap hunting-rifle/benchrest Stevens 200 rifles and throw any chunk of glass on it and viola, you have a rifle that will shoot just as well....guaranteed.

My point is NOT to dis anyone with a factory gun, quite the opposite. My point is, this "tacticool" package has absolutely nothing "precision" about it over and above any other gun! Don't worry about what the thing looks like or is marketed towards. an SPS varmint would be every bit as good for about the same money.

Thanks for your input how about starting a thread on doing it yourself .......on a poor mans budget?

I would love to build something on the "cheap" but I am not sure where to start .
The input from guys like yourself Jerry , Rick and Dennis would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Savage]

I think package guns, for the most part don't make a lot of sense. When you look at a package like this, at some point, there has to be money made somewhere and it's probably in the glass, rings and base, action and barrel.
The stock is about the only quality piece of the whole puzzle. All this package is missing is a plastic stock and they could really make a killing. That's not to say the barrel isn't 'ok' but you'll never catch a quality gunsmith flogging something like this and putting his name behind it. Especially when he's turning out precision firearms and demanding a healthy price. That's like BMW turning out an economy car made in Korea and putting their badge on it.
For a $1,000 or close too, I'd buy a Savage and then start saving for good glass. That way at least you're not buying something that down the road you regret buying. After all, in this day and age, being able to afford a $2,000 or even $2,500 rifle and scope is something that someone can actually save up for and have something to show for it.

Buy quality and be proud of it.

Troy very well put I have my doubts that it delivers any better accuracy than a Remington LTR /P or XCR or the Savage FCP 10 LE models

 

[Ian Robertson]

I know what these parts cost, in the USA as well, and the fellow that does this is trying to get a business name. Unless he has some excellent employees that he is paying minimum wage (not) he will most likely be loosing money and at the very best breaking even. Howa barreled actions are excellent for the buck. I can help if anyone wants to buy a bunch!

 

[Mystic Precision]

Best bang for the buck, go talk to a Savage dealer, order up a dozen or two Savage FCP 10 LE's in a stock config of your liking. HS, McMillan, Choate and likely a home grown something or other next year.

Will shoot 1/2 to 3/4 MOA out of the box, have a great user friendly trigger, center feed D mag, and great stock. All you need is a Farrell MOA base, some Burris rings and a scope (can supply all three).

Base rifle would have been around $1000 for the HS stock, $1150 for the McM. at least they were....

That is a smoking great deal.

Right now, it is very hard to get stocks out of the US as most manf are not export ready. So right away you are limited in choices and the price of the projects goes up. A Robertson is around $500ish.

Even if you start with a 12FV and pitch the stock, the base rifle is already $600. If you build off the orig stock, now you are getting a budget rig.

Stevens build - $300+ (not sure what the new pricing will be) minus what you can sell the barrel/stock off for.

Timney trigger - $134.95. Rifle Basix and SSS not available but working on it.

Bolt handle - up to $100

Stock - you can modify the orig or ?????

Shilen prefit barrel - best quality (SS Select match) is $475 and will shoot bugholes in the Stevens or Savage action.

Farrell base - $100

Burris rings - up to $84 w/inserts.

So you are looking around $1200 plus whatever stock you can dig up. Still a great deal for a semi custom that can shoot but if I wasn't looking for a super light trigger, just go play with the factory savage then swap the barrel out when you are bored or want something better.

Think $1700 with a new pipe as a realistic min.

Then you got to buy a scope....

Jerry

 

[liberty]

Thanks for your input how about starting a thread on doing it yourself .......on a poor mans budget?

I would love to build something on the "cheap" but I am not sure where to start .
The input from guys like yourself Jerry , Rick and Dennis would be greatly appreciated.

I think the point is, that if you want something that is better than a factory rifle, and better than a rifle just assembled from a collection of parts, then you are going to have to pay someone knowlegeable to build it for you.

And that means taking those parts and mating them all together properly so you end up with a rifle more precise, more true and consistant and better than factory.

 

[iconfig]

This isn't a "precision rifle" to begin with. It is a factory rifle - that like all factory rifles is designed to look better than it actually is, with factory heavy barrel,a gross pink stock and a scope.

It doesn't mean it won't shoot, but I guarantee you will have just as big a chance of getting accurate (or not) results buying ANY factory gun. In other words, you can buy one of those cheap hunting-rifle/benchrest Stevens 200 rifles and throw any chunk of glass on it and viola, you have a rifle that will shoot just as well....guaranteed.

My point is NOT to dis anyone with a factory gun, quite the opposite. My point is, this "tacticool" package has absolutely nothing "precision" about it over and above any other gun! Don't worry about what the thing looks like or is marketed towards. an SPS varmint would be every bit as good for about the same money.

Obtunded, i have to agree with you. I have about 3k into one of my 700p's ( 1k for the rifle, 2k for optics, base, rings ) and its nothing more than a factory rifle. i just need to save a few more pennies for a krieger barrel and action truing

 

[Glock-a-maniac]

Troy very well put I have my doubts that it delivers any better accuracy than a Remington LTR /P or XCR or the Savage FCP 10 LE models

The biggest disadvantage to this package is the scope and rings. I would definitely go head to head with someone shooting this package while I would grab any one of the guns listed above and put my own scope and rings on.

This all comes back to getting what you pay for and unfortunately that's exactly what the guy that's selling this gun will tell you. He's not giving a lot away but he's trying to make a buck on someone.
At the SHOT show this last year there were tons of guys trying to peddle their cheap line of scopes with huge mark up and some looked ok and others had plastic lenses. The ones that looked ok were just finished slightly better. They still had the same sh!t quality turrets which weren't repeatable and the same fish eye type focus when cranked up. I definitely won't get in the way of some of the dealers on this forum trying to peddle this type of product. Who am I to tell them how to make a buck.

I just fail to understand why someone would want to invest in a sows ear and try to run with the guys that save up and invest in a silk purse. That just sounds bad but it happens to be the saying. There should be a seperate part of this forum for guys that want to show off how cheap they were able to obtain a gun that shoots 1/2" groups at 100yds only and leave the precision rifle part of the forum for guys that truly take pride in investing in a hobby they really care about.

This is the case with car guys and I see no reason why it isn't the case with rifle guys. I'm not part of the exotic car club because I just don't measure up nor do I see Honda civics and hopped up Dodge Neons in my car club so why should this forum be any different.

 

[Bush Man]

I just fail to understand why someone would want to invest in a sows ear and try to run with the guys that save up and invest in a silk purse. That just sounds bad but it happens to be the saying. There should be a seperate part of this forum for guys that want to show off how cheap they were able to obtain a gun that shoots 1/2" groups at 100yds only and leave the precision rifle part of the forum for guys that truly take pride in investing in a hobby they really care about.

You have to remember this is an idea for a starter rig.

I'm new to long range shooting this year, before that I was confused as to what I needed to shoot that far. I also didn't know if I was going to like it, so I didn't want to flog a whole butt load of money on a experiment.

I built myself an SPS Varmint rifle that you guys seem to be mocking. Ya its no $6000 ATR custom, but that type of rifle is a waste if I'm only a 3/4 MOA shooter when I started. And I also didn't join F-Class to win 1st place. I joined to make myself a better shooter.

So

If a starter rig from a decent platform (ie Savage, Rem) with a target turret scope and bases to go with it was available I think you might see an increase in the F-class turn out.


The thing that you dealers aren't thinking about is that you sell Jonny Firefoot a starter long range system for a fair price, maybe you make a couple bucks on it, maybe you break even. BUT...... when the guy out grows the capabilities of that gun, he would probably be inclined to go back to you and get a full custom built, because he now is hooked at shooting Long range. Like myself, I'm already trying to decide what I want to build for a full custom. Just my 2.

 

[iconfig]

Bush Man, precision gun smiths usually aren't lacking in business to start with and who is going to put together 30 "starter rigs" that might sell or might not ?

 

[bclinehand]

You have to remember this is an idea for a starter rig.

I'm new to long range shooting this year, before that I was confused as to what I needed to shoot that far. I also didn't know if I was going to like it, so I didn't want to flog a whole butt load of money on a experiment.

I built myself an SPS Varmint rifle that you guys seem to be mocking. Ya its no $6000 ATR custom, but that type of rifle is a waste if I'm only a 3/4 MOA shooter when I started. And I also didn't join F-Class to win 1st place. I joined to make myself a better shooter.

So

If a starter rig from a decent platform (ie Savage, Rem) with a target turret scope and bases to go with it was available I think you might see an increase in the F-class turn out.


The thing that you dealers aren't thinking about is that you sell Jonny Firefoot a starter long range system for a fair price, maybe you make a couple bucks on it, maybe you break even. BUT...... when the guy out grows the capabilities of that gun, he would probably be inclined to go back to you and get a full custom built, because he now is hooked at shooting Long range. Like myself, I'm already trying to decide what I want to build for a full custom. Just my 2.

These are the reasons that I started the thread in the first place

 

[Glock-a-maniac]

You have to remember this is an idea for a starter rig.

I'm new to long range shooting this year, before that I was confused as to what I needed to shoot that far. I also didn't know if I was going to like it, so I didn't want to flog a whole butt load of money on a experiment.

I built myself an SPS Varmint rifle that you guys seem to be mocking. Ya its no $6000 ATR custom, but that type of rifle is a waste if I'm only a 3/4 MOA shooter when I started. And I also didn't join F-Class to win 1st place. I joined to make myself a better shooter.

So

If a starter rig from a decent platform (ie Savage, Rem) with a target turret scope and bases to go with it was available I think you might see an increase in the F-class turn out.


The thing that you dealers aren't thinking about is that you sell Jonny Firefoot a starter long range system for a fair price, maybe you make a couple bucks on it, maybe you break even. BUT...... when the guy out grows the capabilities of that gun, he would probably be inclined to go back to you and get a full custom built, because he now is hooked at shooting Long range. Like myself, I'm already trying to decide what I want to build for a full custom. Just my 2.

I could be a typical salesmen and agree with you and offer something similar and take your money. That would probably make you feel good inside knowing that you're right but the fact is, your starter rifle should still be some heavy barrel Remington or Savage. It doesn't have to be black because after all it's just a colour and I can turn any gun black. It had better not have a plastic stock on it or else when you take that gun out and shoot it, you will get frustrated at how in-accurate it is and think that you have to drop a whole butt load of money to achieve accuracy. Your scope will dictate how accurate your gun is if the gun is in line with what was mentioned above. Put a sh!t scope on it because, of course you don't want to invest a ton into optics right away, just incase you don't like it and again you will be frustrated blaming the gun and the lack of money you don't have into it while all along, optics played the major part.
Bottom line, Remington or Savage can be rebarreled down the road and the fiberglass, or wood stock that comes with the gun can also be used in the future. The last thing I want to sell someone is something they have to go backwards to upgrade that's why, in my opinion, buying a 223 is not as good as buying a 308 as a starter gun purely based on the bolt face.

Custom guns are great but a properly bedded Remington or Savage with good glass will definitely outshoot a lot of shooters. We do it all the time.

 

[Obtunded]

...I built myself an SPS Varmint rifle that you guys seem to be mocking. Ya its no $6000 ATR custom, but that type of rifle is a waste if I'm only a 3/4 MOA shooter when I started. And I also didn't join F-Class to win 1st place. I joined to make myself a better shooter...if a starter rig from a decent platform (ie Savage, Rem) with a target turret scope and bases to go with it was available I think you might see an increase in the F-class turn out.

You have yourself the perfect rig to get started and I am certainly not mocking you, in fact you have gone about things very smartly. What bothers me is the marketing technique with this rifle. The Title implies a rifle that is greater than the sum of all its parts.

There is so much more to "precision" shooting than just the rifle, and in the hands of a neophyte shooter, even a $6000 ATR custom won't yield good results.

The important thing is to get out there and get shooting. I say don't waste a ton of money right out the gate, the exception to that rule is the scope. If you buy one good scope, you can switch that scope between rifles and get to know what it does. You can use a good scope on a low-budget gun or you can use it on a full-on BR rig.

From the moment you get the "precision" bug, you will begin to incrementally upgrade and change things and as you go, each little thing will help. The biggest quantum leaps in accuracy will happen when you are able to combine a good barrel, good ammo and a good shooter.

I started F-class with a factory Tikka. I learned more about shooting in my first match than in the ten years leading up to it. Good for you for giving it a try!