Anybody reload Challengers or Rios?

ninepointer

ninepointer

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Posted this in the reloading forum, but it quickly got lost in all the rifle threads. Since my interest is target loads, I'm thinking I'm more likely to find some advice here...

Does anybody reload Challenger or Rio shells? I'm thinking of 12 ga. 1 oz. loads with say 18.5 gr. of green dot. Having said that, I'd like some REAL data.

I saw some threads on other forums that recommend Cheddite data for both. But I took a Challenger hull & a Rio hull and cut them in half to get cross sections, which revealed very different plastic basewads and different internal dimensions.

Is there a safe reliable recipe out there, or should I just throw the hulls in the trash?
 
Challenger hulls are made by Cheddite. Some guys love them other do not. For safe loading data I would suggest visiting Alliants web site as there are hundreds of tested loads there for Cheddite hulls. As for the Rio's I have not a clue. Perhaps someone else can help there?
 
ninepointer said:
Posted this in the reloading forum, but it quickly got lost in all the rifle threads. Since my interest is target loads, I'm thinking I'm more likely to find some advice here...

Does anybody reload Challenger or Rio shells? I'm thinking of 12 ga. 1 oz. loads with say 18.5 gr. of green dot. Having said that, I'd like some REAL data.

I saw some threads on other forums that recommend Cheddite data for both. But I took a Challenger hull & a Rio hull and cut them in half to get cross sections, which revealed very different plastic basewads and different internal dimensions.

Is there a safe reliable recipe out there, or should I just throw the hulls in the trash?
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I've loaded Cheddite hulls (Challengers and Kents) with no problems. Alliant has recommended loads using Green Dot and Federal 12SO wads which are easy to find in Canada. Hogdgon has recipes as well with their powders but using Gualandi wads which are a little harder to come by.

No experience loading Rios.
 
Challenger 12 ounce and an eighth load well with 1oz Fed wads and can be loaded a few times.

Reloading 20 gauge loads mean you have to shoot the 20 first, which will probably require shoulder surgery after shooting a case of challenger factory 20. But they reload and eject well with Unique and Fed wads

I've had problems ejecting 28 gauge challenger reloads, but they certainly are effective loads (again Unique and Fed wads). 28 Challenger factory are also heavy recoil ammo, more felt recoil than a Fed Top Gun 20.
 
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From the Alliant Powder Guide. I have loaded most of these with Challenger and Kent hulls. I usually do not load these hulls more than two times. I prefer the 1 oz American Select and Red Dot.
 
Thanks all :). That Alliant Cheddite recipe is almost identical to the Federal recipe which I'm already set up for. So I loaded a Challenger and Kent, but I have come to the conclusion that I'll have to get Cheddite 209 primers. What they say is true; the Cheddites have a slightly larger primer pocket. My Win 209 primers went in a little too easy for my liking.
 
Kind of nice to see the information about these hulls, especially the Challengers and Kents. There are quite a few floating around out here. I've been thinking that they should be OK with just about any wad designed for straight walled cases, but haven't gotten around to trying them very much.
 
Last year I had a whole bunch of kent hulls and 12S0 wads. beretta boy suggested the alliant data. I really liked the 1200 fps load with red dot and american select. They give me the impression of being very soft shooters but hammer targets really hard. I only load them one or two times because hulls are in good supply and they are not one pcs construction.
 
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Covey Ridge said:
Last year I had a whole bunch of kent hulls and 12S0 wads. beretta boy suggested the alliant data. I really liked the 1200 fps load with red dot and american select. They give me the impression of being very soft shooters but hammer targets really hard. I only load them one or two times because hulls are in good supply and they are not one pcs construction.
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Yes, I've wondered why manufacturers changed the construction of hulls, especially Winchester. Their AA hull had such a fine reputation with shooters and reloaders you'd think they would hesitate to fool around with it. (Made me think of 1964 rifles:D) I was given a whole bunch of the older AA's when I started shooting clays and many are still going strong. It makes sense to restrict the number of firings with cheapie reloads, especially the Federal ones. I've watched the base wad deteriorate rapidly with repeated firings in them. Reloading cheapies once isn't a bad approach. In fact, I've wondered if reloading good hulls a lot of times is such a hot idea. I've been told, though I haven't verified it, that velocities fall off quite significantly when you reload hulls, even good hulls, very often. Can't say I've noticed any difference, but then I'm not shooting a 100 straight...yet;)
 
BCFred said:
Yes, I've wondered why manufacturers changed the construction of hulls, especially Winchester. Their AA hull had such a fine reputation with shooters and reloaders you'd think they would hesitate to fool around with it.
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X2. The one-piece AA hull is my favourite. I still have a supply left in 12 gauge but have switched to the AAHS for 28 gauge.
 
Yeah, Winchester shoulda' learned from Coca Cola ... don't mess with what's tried and true. I'm sure they only made the change to save $$$ on manufacturing ... cause the product sure doesn't seem superior to me !

Fortunately I have about 35,000 old-type AA 12 ga. once-fired's, and about 10,000 of the old AA 20's that should last me for a while - backed-up with about 15,000 12 ga. Federal Gold Medals. I gave-up about 5000 each of the old-style 28 and 410 AA's to a dedicated "Skeeter" several years back as I wasn't shooting the little guns much at the time.

The straight-walled Challenger's and Kent's load-up O.K with the Federal wads. I've loaded a bunch with Alliant "Promo" which is somewhat similar to Red Dot. Performance wise, they load-up much the same as the old C.I.L. "Canuck" target loads. Once set-up, the PW 950 press I have churned them out pretty much the same way it handled
AA's or Federals, but each seems to like slightly different wad pressure and crimp depth settings. I was game to try as I have a lot of respect for both Challenger & Kent target loads ... but my inventory of AA's has kept me from switching over.

Old-style AA's are still my favourite, followed by STS's ... although I know a few who favour the reverse order.
 
OK, I will be the odd man out here. Personally, I won't bother with any two piece hull for reloading, especially since Remington one piece hulls (Gun Club, STS, etc.) are so ripe for the picking.
 
The old Peters Blue Magic hulls were IMO the best hulls for reloading. I still have a few pail fulls from back in the 1980's. SRS hulls are near impossible to find in Canada but the Gun Clubs load up well with the same data. Gun Clubs are hard to find in my locale now but fortunately I saved many thousands from dumpsters at the range.
 
Shootshellz said:
OK, I will be the odd man out here. Personally, I won't bother with any two piece hull for reloading, especially since Remington one piece hulls (Gun Club, STS, etc.) are so ripe for the picking.
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Not much of a bother, just simply catch them in my hand after I break my action and then put them in my pocket. No matter how ripe they are, I don't pick. I often tip the trap help or pickers to put some hulls in the back of my truck. Sometrimes after a second firing I eject my gun clubs and sts when certain people are around. Old style or new style AAs I usually let fly after two loadings. Hulls are the one component that I have an over abundance of. I like to load kent or challenger or cheddite because they seem to make a soft shooting load.
 
I'm in the same situation you are CR, Remingtons are in short supply on the ground here. I'd sure like to know where they are in good supply. Maybe we could make a midnight raid on the dumpsters or something:D. I've seen one guy catch them out of the air when a fellow was shooting a semi-auto here. I may be a confirmed junker, but I've got my pride...I was letting them hit the ground first:D. I've started my garbage can for Challengers and Kents. Think I'll give them a go. Kind of interesting you feel they make a 'soft' reload CR. It's a topic that is reminiscent of discussion of sharp and slow recoil with rifles and can be fraught (nice word ehhh!;)) with peril if you bring it up with some people. Me, I just keep feeling the differences. In fact, I shot some heavy, fast 1 1/8th Kent factory loads in a tournament last year because that was all that was available and felt I was taking softer recoil than my own 1 1/8th loads. Felt the same thing with Remington 1 1/8 coming out at 1235 ft/sec too. fred
 
Feeling the difference! That's it. They feel softer! See the difference? Probably just in my head but they seem to hit the target harder? and since I do not load much more than two times per hull, the end result is that they work for me just as good as any. Loading only two times and my hull collection seems to be growing.
 
Covey Ridge said:
Feeling the difference! That's it. They feel softer! See the difference? Probably just in my head but they seem to hit the target harder? and since I do not load much more than two times per hull, the end result is that they work for me just as good as any. Loading only two times and my hull collection seems to be growing.
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X2 As I said, you can get into all sorts of physics arguments and discussions about what a human can and cannot detect, but if they feel softer, then use them I say. I have been asking myself why I should avoid the cheapies under these conditions too. The Winchester AA's usually give you a few more loadings than two, maybe 5 for me. But they aren't all that much better and I have wondered about degradation of pattern and velocity with repeated usage too. The cheapies are more readily available and give good performance with limited reloading being recommended here too.
 
I have a number of the "new" AA hulls both in red and silver that have an additional plastic ring above the base wad.

They seem to collapse and bulge when using a regular AA wad. Is there a new wad that fits these hulls better?

Thanks
 
Keith Mills said:
I have a number of the "new" AA hulls both in red and silver that have an additional plastic ring above the base wad.

They seem to collapse and bulge when using a regular AA wad. Is there a new wad that fits these hulls better?

Thanks
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I have heard that complaint but have never experienced that myself. IIRC about 2 out of 100 used to bulge the crimp, I attributed that to not having a firm enough crimp. Are you using the white AA wad or the orange ones? I have heard that the claybuster knock off is a better fit when using 1 1/8 shot. I have also used the RXP12 in the new hulls with no problem. Since I have switched all of my loading to 1 oz. or less I have never have any problem. I use mostly pink AAs or the pink claybuster knock off.

edit. In the newer AAs I have found the pink 1 oz wads fit the hull better than the gray wads when loading 7/8 oz.
 
A word of caution to Anyone using the cheaper two-piece construction hulls in semi's and pumps. After repeated firings and re loadings, they COULD SEPERATE,

I read a story a long time ago about a guy that was reloading the old winchester supremes, he was on the 2nd or 3rd reload of these hulls,..((this was a 12 ga pump he was using))...while out duck hunting, the shot was taken ALL SOUNDED NORMAL...RECOIL was there...and the action was cycled...when he went to make a quick second shot...a weird bang...different recoil and his buddy next to him had his hat knocked off!!...upon further inspection the barrel was severly split a few inches ahead of the chamber...they found the empty hulls....one of them had NO BASE WAD left in it. They figured it came out on the first, became lodged in the barrel. and the follow up blew it! It was an eye opener for me for sure! .....I never used these in my pump again. Now, I only use these type of hulls in my O/U, and never reload em more than twice!
 
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