Anyone else tired of the AR Piston Craze?

Corpus

Corpus

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They throw off accuracy. The gun is not designed to handle them, and they cause a whole slew of other problems because of that. It's unnecessary, as the AR works great for civilians shooters and hunters as is (we are not in combat people). It makes a the original, and still ###y in it's KISS Form, rifle look even more atrociously gaudy. Especially with ridiculous rail systems and flashlights and other heavy, heavy add-ons that defeat the purpose of the LIGHT stock AR. I'm just wondering when the craze will end, and what all the people who bought them will feel like when they realize they payed a heck of a lot of money for something that essentially messed up their perfect as it was AR. Anyone else feel this way? Anyone else messed with them and realized how unnecessary, and even damaging they really are to the basic AR/M4 ?

Stop screwing with Perfection: THE END OF THE LINE - As good as an AR is ever going to be.
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BigUglyMan said:
Nope. The stock AR gas system is a garbage system. Piston is superior as it runs cooler and cleaner.
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Piston systems do not interface well with the AR bolt carrier, and gas return tube due to their more violent, and herky-jerky operating movement. This neigh mis-matched interface also wears out the bolt carrier faster than normal, and increases the likelihood that the free-float firing pen will over penetrate the primer, or even break. They also produce only slightly less fouling than direct gas impingement. Most importantly however, they destroy the inherent accuracy provided by direct-gas impingement, and add extra parts and springs to maintain and or break. So outside of costing an arm and a leg to do something worse, they are an excellent reason to buy an AR design, but wish it was an AK.

The point being, the AR system is mature, and works well, especially for non-combat shooters. If you want an AR, then you want the accuracy and simplicity of the gas system. If you want a piston, then you want an AK or VZ. Trying to mix two completely different philosophies is never a good idea, and neither is the drop-in gas piston craze for AR's. The grips people have had with the AR have never been about it's gas system anyway. They have been about it's tolerances. The AR is a close tolerance weapon, and stuffing in an incompatible gas system is not the way to fix what can not be fixed. It's a good way to mess up something that works just fine. Go buy an AK or a VZ.
 
So long as it's non-corrosive ammo, and you have a chromed barrel (which most do nowdays) then how much cleaning is really necessary? People seem to believe that an AR must be "eat off of" clean to perform. That's not true. Hit the receiver with gun-scrub and a towel, hit the barrel with gun-scrub, Hoppe's #9 and a half dozen to a dozen patches, oil the gun through-out with Remington spray lube, wipe up the excess, and call it a day; 20 minutes or less. Can you still get fouling out with a patch after that? Yes, but so-what, doesn't matter. Is there still some fouling here and there in the receiver? Yes, but so-what, doesn't matter. What I just described is a better cleaning than combat AR's generally receive, and they still work. Yours will work even better and you don't even have to worry about getting shot at! Also, my AR's get this treatment only a couple of times a year (unless I shoot a lot in a single session (300rds. or so) then they get it three times a year. Once in a blue-moon I'll scrub them, but only on a boring Saturday afternoon, sometimes years apart from one another. They function and shoot just fine and dandy. A Piston AR requires the same amount of cleaning, but needs slightly less to be "eat off of" clean. Who cares if it's easier to get "eat off of" clean? We're not going to an inspection, and a Piston totally screws the whole point of an AR, which is accuracy. Then again, the AR was meant to be light, and everyone is hanging 10lbs. of BS off them these days. It's a silly world. Blow your money on Pistons. It's your right. But the truth is, you're just blowing money for no reason, and probably f-ing up your gun.
 
The 416 is a completely re-engineered upper assembly. I'm talking about drop-in Piston systems that a lot of people seem so crazy about. The 416 and an AR with a Piston Conversion system are not the same thing at all. One is a race-car underneath stock-car shell. The other is a Chevy Nova with a big-block dropped in it, without uprading the engine blocks or suspension. That's one retarded car, bound for failure.
 
I would agree that a drop in system that does not also alter bolt, buffer, spring is a poor choice. I thought you were talking about the complete redesigns that are being done.
 
Corpus said:
The 416 is a completely re-engineered upper assembly. I'm talking about drop-in Piston systems that a lot of people seem so crazy about.
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oh.. So now you change your rant. ??

Which drop in system is everyone crazy about?

Piston users are generally LMT , HK and a few POF. I don't know anyone that uses a drop in kit.

The rail systems and flashlights and everything else have nothing to do with a piston system......

I used a POF for a little while. It was the sweetest thing ever.....just FCK'N heavy!! :) My left nut for another POF though..... get some in and they will sell instantly.
 
Corpus said:
So long as it's non-corrosive ammo, and you have a chromed barrel (which most do nowdays) then how much cleaning is really necessary? People seem to believe that an AR must be "eat off of" clean to perform. That's not true. Hit the receiver with gun-scrub and a towel, hit the barrel with gun-scrub, Hoppe's #9 and a half dozen to a dozen patches, oil the gun through-out with Remington spray lube, wipe up the excess, and call it a day; 20 minutes or less. Can you still get fouling out with a patch after that? Yes, but so-what, doesn't matter. Is there still some fouling here and there in the receiver? Yes, but so-what, doesn't matter. What I just described is a better cleaning than combat AR's generally receive, and they still work. Yours will work even better and you don't even have to worry about getting shot at! Also, my AR's get this treatment only a couple of times a year (unless I shoot a lot in a single session (300rds. or so) then they get it three times a year. Once in a blue-moon I'll scrub them, but only on a boring Saturday afternoon, sometimes years apart from one another. They function and shoot just fine and dandy. A Piston AR requires the same amount of cleaning, but needs slightly less to be "eat off of" clean. Who cares if it's easier to get "eat off of" clean? We're not going to an inspection, and a Piston totally screws the whole point of an AR, which is accuracy. Then again, the AR was meant to be light, and everyone is hanging 10lbs. of BS off them these days. It's a silly world. Blow your money on Pistons. It's your right. But the truth is, you're just blowing money for no reason, and probably f-ing up your gun.
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Don't know where you got that little tid bit from but EVERYONE I know that carries a C7 into combat is meticulous with cleaning their rifles.

Cleaning is a life or death concern in combat.
 
Lots of clean patches and gunscrub, and Hoppe's #9, at your firebase? Most troops in country live in the big bases. It's a different story in a firebase, and the M4's still work there as well. The M4 works in a lot worse conditions than people give them credit for, and most people think firefights are all full-auto afairs with thousands of rounds and melted barrels like they see in the movies. Rate of fire, ammo spent, and spray and pray are not actually common as in the movies. Several aimed shots or a few suppression shots a minute are more the order of the day so far as I understand. What has fully auto done for the average soldier today? Answer is not much, fouling included. Then again, these forums are not for soldiers in combat, they are for guys who like to shoot and hunt, and possibly defend themselves against something less than an Army, but meticulously clean AR's are not what you find in the real war, and the AR can take it all with minimal cleaning compared to "meticulous." An M4/AR/etc. is a RIFLE, not a sub-machine gun, and it is to be employed and cared for as such.
 
Petrock said:
Don't know where you got that little tid bit from but EVERYONE I know that carries a C7 into combat is meticulous with cleaning their rifles.

Cleaning is a life or death concern in combat.
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No piston required...

LUBE -- fire less than 1000 rds add lube, you dont need to rip it apart, M16 style guns (like women) run better wet!


I've seen 10.5 and 11.5 DI guns run suppressed be cleaner than a unsuppressed 10.4" Hk416 after 2k rounds
 
The good thing about piston AR's is when you clean them the gunk stuff just wipes off. No baked on crap cause its cool enough not to burn the stuff onto the metal surfaces. And for lazy people like myself (when if comes to cleaning) this is a huge plus not to mention the rifle even if really dirty still functions reliability.
 
Actually - most if not all of the piston conversions ruin your gun.
Secondly the AR was not built for a piston - high round count "purpose built" piston uppers will demonstrate that no one has it all figured out.

I sold my Hk416's - simply because I found I could get a better gun in a DI system, and while I liked the Hk's people where willing to pay way more than they where really worth.
 
KevinB said:
Actually - most if not all of the piston conversions ruin your gun.
Secondly the AR was not built for a piston - high round count "purpose built" piston uppers will demonstrate that no one has it all figured out.

I sold my Hk416's - simply because I found I could get a better gun in a DI system, and while I liked the Hk's people where willing to pay way more than they where really worth.
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x2!
 
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