Anyone experience qith 9mm para Alfa project revolver?

VanMan said:
I got extra moon clips from Rusty Woods when they first came out. I think they were only ~$8 each......
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They were $9 each. I bought some of that same batch. It was a sweating brow and a shaking hand which took the small bag of clips in exchange for the $103 after taxes. I should likely keep them in a jewelry box for what they cost and what they are..... :)

No Target, the holsters for the S&W K frame size guns work like a charm. For overall size the AP guns are externally almost a copy of the K frame guns. And if you bought one of the .38Spl/.357Mag versions they use the same speed loaders as the K frame guns.
 
BCRider said:
They were $9 each. I bought some of that same batch. It was a sweating brow and a shaking hand which took the small bag of clips in exchange for the $103 after taxes. I should likely keep them in a jewelry box for what they cost and what they are..... :)
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I feel the same way about the moonclilps which seem like they are worth more than their weight in gold.:mad:

At $10 a pop, I am very hesitant to use them for fear of breaking them.

For range use, I find that loading cartridges individually, then extracting them manually by pushing out with a BBQ doesn't take as much time as charging and uncharging a moonclilp.

Therefore, I do not use my moons.
 
Teaser alert. I might have a rimmed option for you. I've been playing around with .38S&W casings shortened with my rifle casing length sizer then formed in 9mm dies and loaded with 9mm loads and bullets. I've only done a dozen and shot them but the first results look really good. They not only shoot fine but the star intended for use with the moonclips catches the rims and ejects them just fine unless you get really lazy on the ejection stroke and don't quite have the gun pointed up enough.

More to come when I get another set of 9mm dies or a shell plate to let me feed the .38S&W cases through my Dillon 550b.... Until then try not to drool too much on your keyboard....:evil:
 
There are 2 models of blued 4.5" 9mm Alfa's: the 9251 with the extended forcing cone where the cylinder does not fill the frame space, and the "9251 Classic" where the cylinder fills the frame space. Does anyone know whether the 2 models are the same size frame-wise?

Price wise, the 9251 is currently $550 at Tiger Arms and $619 at Blue Line, both here on the west coast.
 
The flip side is that 38 casings cost more than 9mm, the extra little bit of sizing to get to 9mm may mean the 38 cases don't last as long before splitting, and it's probably costing you more in time than it costs to buy a couple moon clips at their exorbitant price, but still an interesting idea experiment for range use. Let us know how the cases last. Remember the safety glasses!

BCRider said:
Teaser alert. I might have a rimmed option for you. I've been playing around with .38S&W casings shortened with my rifle casing length sizer then formed in 9mm dies and loaded with 9mm loads and bullets. ...
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BCRider said:
Teaser alert. I might have a rimmed option for you. I've been playing around with .38S&W casings shortened with my rifle casing length sizer then formed in 9mm dies and loaded with 9mm loads and bullets. I've only done a dozen and shot them but the first results look really good. They not only shoot fine but the star intended for use with the moonclips catches the rims and ejects them just fine unless you get really lazy on the ejection stroke and don't quite have the gun pointed up enough.

More to come when I get another set of 9mm dies or a shell plate to let me feed the .38S&W cases through my Dillon 550b.... Until then try not to drool too much on your keyboard....:evil:
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Won't 38Spl cases work? I'm out of the house now or I would've checked.
 
Workfromphone- that site is awesome!! Those holsters look dreamy, and reasonably priced! Had I known I could pick up an extra set of grips I would of reconsidered trading mine a while back. I found it to be small in my hands, comfortable, but small. I always wanted a 9mm revolver at the time too. Another thing that upset me was I bent a moon clip pulling it out of the rotating cylinder. So because of that I put it on the chopping block lol.
 
Seadog123 said:
There are 2 models of blued 4.5" 9mm Alfa's: the 9251 with the extended forcing cone where the cylinder does not fill the frame space, and the "9251 Classic" where the cylinder fills the frame space..
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Easyrider604 points out they are both the same frame size, but this brings up a separate question. When the 9mm round is loaded in the longer cylinder of the 9251 Classic the tip of the bullet will be well short of the end of the cylinder (assuming the rear of the casing lines up with the rear of the cylinder ...). When fired from the Classic, won't the 9mm bullet have to "jump" the longer space between the tip off the bullet and the forcing cone? Assuming the cylinder itself does not taper towards the forcing cone is the 9mm bullet unsupported over that distance till it reaches the forcing cone? Does it matter? I'd be interested to hear from anyone who might know as my brother is mulling over the two options. Thanks.
 
In theory the short cylinder model with the barrel extending inside the frame should perform better, but in reality it probably doens't make much difference or they would not make a long cylinder 9mm model.

I like that the 4.2" model with the short cylinder is basically a 4 inch revolver in size despite having a 4.2" barrel. I find the size handles well, looks nice and as a bonus you can find surplus 4 " revolver holsters that will work for cheap...... :) The recoil is pretty mild so there is no real benefit to a bigger, heavier gun.

9mm double action revolvers are not that common, add in the short cylinder and over all length and it's a unique choice.
 
Seadog123 said:
Easyrider604 points out they are both the same frame size, but this brings up a separate question. When the 9mm round is loaded in the longer cylinder of the 9251 Classic the tip of the bullet will be well short of the end of the cylinder (assuming the rear of the casing lines up with the rear of the cylinder ...). When fired from the Classic, won't the 9mm bullet have to "jump" the longer space between the tip off the bullet and the forcing cone? Assuming the cylinder itself does not taper towards the forcing cone is the 9mm bullet unsupported over that distance till it reaches the forcing cone? Does it matter? I'd be interested to hear from anyone who might know as my brother is mulling over the two options. Thanks.
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Revolvers are different in that the bullet goes from the cylinder chamber, through the cylinder throat, through the forcing cone, and then into the barrel to engage the rifling. Theoretically, so long as there is ~.001" obturation between the cylinder chamber -> cylinder throat, and cylinder throat -> barrel bore, you will be fine.

I've slugged both my S&W 929's and found them to have cylinder throats and barrel bore of .357" and .356". I've tried reloading both 9mm (.355") and 38sp (.357", .358") bullets into 9mm brass and didn't notice any different in accuracy (ie group size). The only real difference I found was that my normal 9mm reloads were ~10% slower in the 929 compared to my semi-auto's.

I've really enjoyed my Proj Alpha 9261 for range plinking and found it very accurate, although have not done a direct comparison against the 929's. I thought I had already slugged it, but I can't find the measurements. I think I've still got some lead slugs left, so I'll do it again this weekend.
 
easyrider604 said:
Won't 38Spl cases work? I'm out of the house now or I would've checked.
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stevebc said:
No, .38 Special is a longer but narrower case.
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Exactly. Not larger at the mouth but larger at the base. Remember that 9mm is a tapered casing. It's not a lot but it's there and it matters. Forming the .38S&W cases down in a 9mm die retains the diameter near the case head but sizes the larger diameter down at the mouth.

Seadog, yeah, it's a lot of fussing around. I don't see ever doing more than a couple of hundred just for range use. I briefly considered it for my IDPA since the resulting short loads fit neatly in my Safariland speed loaders. But I'd end up losing about 15 or 20 casings per match even with care. And that's more than it's worth to try to keep up with for cost and time. So all in all the time from the light bulb going on to realizing that it would be not that great was about a whole 30 seconds.... :d
 
Seadog123 said:
Easyrider604 points out they are both the same frame size, but this brings up a separate question. When the 9mm round is loaded in the longer cylinder of the 9251 Classic the tip of the bullet will be well short of the end of the cylinder (assuming the rear of the casing lines up with the rear of the cylinder ...). When fired from the Classic, won't the 9mm bullet have to "jump" the longer space between the tip off the bullet and the forcing cone? Assuming the cylinder itself does not taper towards the forcing cone is the 9mm bullet unsupported over that distance till it reaches the forcing cone? Does it matter? I'd be interested to hear from anyone who might know as my brother is mulling over the two options. Thanks.
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In theory it should be an issue. In reality it's not something that produces a noticeable difference. To compare look at folks with the Ruger Convertibles. In particular look up the comparisons between .45Colt and .45ACP. I would not suggest using the 9mm/38Spl Convertible as a valid example since these guns have lots of reports about the compromise bore size producing an accuracy issue of it's own. But the .45 size Convertible shoots the same size bullets. Just with the longer jump. I've yet to find anyone that notices a consistent shift in accuracy when switching between cylinders.
 
Can-down said:
9mm double action revolvers are not that common, add in the short cylinder and over all length and it's a unique choice.
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I'm in the same boat as Can-down. Despite having limited application for my fun competition shooting I don't intend on selling it off any time soon just for these same factors.
 
BCRider said:
In theory it should be an issue. In reality it's not something that produces a noticeable difference. To compare look at folks with the Ruger Convertibles. In particular look up the comparisons between .45Colt and .45ACP. I would not suggest using the 9mm/38Spl Convertible as a valid example since these guns have lots of reports about the compromise bore size producing an accuracy issue of it's own. But the .45 size Convertible shoots the same size bullets. Just with the longer jump. I've yet to find anyone that notices a consistent shift in accuracy when switching between cylinders.
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This got me thinking. I was actually going to pick up some 45 Auto Rim for when I'm just plinking with my 625, but just measured some 45 colt cases and thinking I can just trim them down. I have a bunch of 1F cases, and probably won't be shooting much 45 colt :)
 
The issue with trimming them that far is that the walls are tapered. And cutting them down that far is likely to make the mouth bulge out far enough to bind in the chambers. Try ONE first. Cut it down then run it through the steps to seat a bullet and try it. If the mouth has not become too large and it does not bind up then you're lucky and you can use it with at least that brand of casings.

Rusty typically carries a stock of auto rim brass though. A quick check shows that he has it in stock. So why bother with the extra work and risk?
 
BCRider said:
The issue with trimming them that far is that the walls are tapered. And cutting them down that far is likely to make the mouth bulge out far enough to bind in the chambers. Try ONE first. Cut it down then run it through the steps to seat a bullet and try it. If the mouth has not become too large and it does not bind up then you're lucky and you can use it with at least that brand of casings.

Rusty typically carries a stock of auto rim brass though. A quick check shows that he has it in stock. So why bother with the extra work and risk?
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I've seen it on the Rusty Woods site. Would be ~$200 for 500pcs delivered. Just an idle thought to trim down some 45colt brass because I have a fair bit of that, and don't really shoot 45colt that much. Maybe something to tinker with in the off season :)
 
Even better, looks like you can buy these Ranch made moonclips in the US. Uniqetek has them for $19.95USF for an 8-pack
h ttp://www.uniquetek.com/ranch_products_moon_clips
 
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