Anyone Have Experience with the Antonio Zoli 1900 Rifle?
- Thread starter South Pender
- Start date
Not in the same league as a tikka? I tend to disagree friend…. They are pretty much the same gun to me.
I guess that depends on what you mean by "real engraving." If you mean having an engraver do the pattern entirely by hand (as in some custom guns), then you aren't going to find that on a regularly-priced production model.
Here's what real hand-engraving looks like, first in the white:
;
and then once blued (the oval with the squirrel engraving is done with a French Grey finish):
That level and style of true hand-engraving costs thousands. (The particular rifle shown, a Sako P94S .22LR, was engraved by Bruce Farman, a member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild.) What we see on the Zolis (and many others, like the deluxe Sakos) is most certainly machine done or at the very least machine-aided at a low cost and requiring minimal human involvement.
These Zoli rifles (and others using the 1900-action) are in a completely different class than the Tikkas and CZs. In his excellent and comprehensive book, The Bolt Action Vol. II, Stuart Otteson wrote:
"If prizes were awarded in firearms design, this Carl Gustaf [the 1900 series] rifle would surely be at or near the top in the category of commercial bolt actions. The short lifespan of what Eric Cläesson described as the "pearl" of FFV's sporting arms line is thus particularly ironic and regrettable
"It was neither perfect nor remarkably novel or innovative. The trigger could use some work, and a lot of people didn't care much for the die-cast trigger guard [that would be my only criticism]. A safety thumbpiece made from something other than sheet metal would have looked a lot nicer. Yet it was overall a refreshingly sound and well balanced action, crisp and uncluttered, and embodying consummate good taste. It exuded precision and workmanship, and functioned with a smoothness rare in modern rifles."
Otteson was referring to the run of the Swedish 1900s; the Zoli carries that on to the present time.
i honestly think comparing the zoli 1900 with the original 1900 is really wrong ... it is interesting that when available in our hunting group and association none of them kept the italian 1900, have a look in your same book about cz550 and brno 602-603 or fn commercial 98 ...
life is made of differences and different opinions ... on that one i disagree and for some reasons:
smooth of the action and quality built but again axis is was a $350 and tikka a $500/$600 but it s all good now that the italian zoli are the same as the original 1900 why not lol ...
sharp shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Essex county (Ontario)
That is a pretty little gun.
Not to say the T3 doesn't have its advantages, but keeping it strictly Zoli vs T3, I believe it does have something over the T3, namely:
A bolt unlocking lever
A better recoil lug design
A one piece bolt
Better gas handling capabilities
A slightly smoother bolt (not something that matters, but it sells guns)
And by far a better finish
Triggers are of comparable quality although the T3's can usually be adjusted a bit lighter. Wood stocks are of comparable quality.
I won't go as far as others here in saying the T3 is basically a Sako made Axis, but when it comes to design, it's pretty basic.
I'm not educated enough to say which one has better tolerances, but I see the Zoli 1900 as being equally modern as they are both in current production.
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I've owned and hunted extensively with 1969 Swedish HVA 1900's in .270, .25-06 & .30.06...25 my fave..
I purchased each rifle as new with hanging tags still in place...
With a high quality glass & practice w/ quality ammo (they all loved ballistic silvertips..), I harvested one shot - dead in their tracks - game at ranges which need not be bragged about or questioned....but I raised many an eyebrow on seasoned hunters 20+ years my age who were amazed what those rifles could achieve, repeatedly...
...and all with a commercially built 1969 HVA 1900 rifle...unsure if Sako or Tikka was there in '69, but I know that Husqvarna was...without question...
I do miss them, all of them...
I purchased each rifle as new with hanging tags still in place...
With a high quality glass & practice w/ quality ammo (they all loved ballistic silvertips..), I harvested one shot - dead in their tracks - game at ranges which need not be bragged about or questioned....but I raised many an eyebrow on seasoned hunters 20+ years my age who were amazed what those rifles could achieve, repeatedly...
...and all with a commercially built 1969 HVA 1900 rifle...unsure if Sako or Tikka was there in '69, but I know that Husqvarna was...without question...
I do miss them, all of them...
- Location
- Steel Town
Zoli must have significantly improved their triggers and went to CNC production to match or exceed the T3 or 557. 
I hold strong to my opinion. Yes, modern production means matte finishes unless you are paying big $$$. +1 Zoli.
One-piece bolts are nice, and I have many rifles with one-piece bolts, but it's not really a deal breaker for me, and I have enjoyed swapping / modifying handles. +1 Zoli.
Engraving has zero appeal to me unless done to the standards of a Martini/Hagn custom, but to each their own.
I hold strong to my opinion. Yes, modern production means matte finishes unless you are paying big $$$. +1 Zoli.
One-piece bolts are nice, and I have many rifles with one-piece bolts, but it's not really a deal breaker for me, and I have enjoyed swapping / modifying handles. +1 Zoli.
Engraving has zero appeal to me unless done to the standards of a Martini/Hagn custom, but to each their own.
saka was there and tikka was very close in production year.
T3 may well be SAKO axis but it is still SAKO
honestly I see more similarities than difference but when I had little money I bought a T3 for ~700 bucks and at that price point they were beyond reproach
Design is simple and catered towards ease of manufacture but what else is new? Well made is well made, mags are simple but effective and the guns shoot and carry well.
Ruger American seems to have taken its place as the budget blaster du jour and it is effective but not half the gun imo. Ergos, magazine and finish on the tikka are just much better
Way off topic now but used A7s are cheaper than some used tikkas now, I think it’s a better gun for what that’s worth*
* not much
honestly I see more similarities than difference but when I had little money I bought a T3 for ~700 bucks and at that price point they were beyond reproach
Design is simple and catered towards ease of manufacture but what else is new? Well made is well made, mags are simple but effective and the guns shoot and carry well.
Ruger American seems to have taken its place as the budget blaster du jour and it is effective but not half the gun imo. Ergos, magazine and finish on the tikka are just much better
Way off topic now but used A7s are cheaper than some used tikkas now, I think it’s a better gun for what that’s worth*
* not much
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Little food for thoughts I'd like to bring;
Have you ever seen a "cheap" rifle being transformed in a real gem by a very reputable gunsmith / armorer ?
I never seen such thing as a Tikka or a even less a Ruger American or an Axis being quoted "The World's Most Expensive Rifle" and being sold to 820 K $ ...
Viggo Olsson, of V.O. Vapen builds super expensive rifles using the Zoli 1900 actions / barreled actions. And he does it since Zoli started the production of the 1900 with his former company named Viking Arms in Sweden in the '80's and still does today with V.O. Vapen on a much hyped quality / value...
Those extra-wealthy customers would not buy a rifle which is not up to their expectations...
h ttps://luxurylaunches.com/other_stuff/vo_falcon_edition_is_the_worlds_most_expensive_rifle_at_820000.php
Have you ever seen a "cheap" rifle being transformed in a real gem by a very reputable gunsmith / armorer ?
I never seen such thing as a Tikka or a even less a Ruger American or an Axis being quoted "The World's Most Expensive Rifle" and being sold to 820 K $ ...
Viggo Olsson, of V.O. Vapen builds super expensive rifles using the Zoli 1900 actions / barreled actions. And he does it since Zoli started the production of the 1900 with his former company named Viking Arms in Sweden in the '80's and still does today with V.O. Vapen on a much hyped quality / value...
Those extra-wealthy customers would not buy a rifle which is not up to their expectations...
h ttps://luxurylaunches.com/other_stuff/vo_falcon_edition_is_the_worlds_most_expensive_rifle_at_820000.php
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Thanks for that info, Baribal. I went on to the V.O. Vapen site, and it was a very pleasant read! They produce some really exquisite rifles with the basic 1900 action. I'm assuming that they replace the cheap alloy bottom metal found on the Husqvarna and CG 1900s with a steel unit, and I'd be curious as to whether Zoli does this as well. I don't think I'd be interested in a Zoli if they have the alloy trigger guard/floorplate unit.
You're absolutely right that no custom smith would likely build a top-drawer rifle on a Ruger, Savage, or even Tikka action. I believe that Holland and Holland built a few rifles on the Sako L- and A-series actions, and, of course, thousands of high-end custom rifles have featured the pre-64 Winchester M70 action. I don't recall seeing a high-end all-out walnut and steel custom rifle on the Remington 700 action.
fair enough.
medvedqc,
I have acquired several Zoli 1900 made rifles over the years and really honestly, I can't say they are not up to the same quality than the HVA/FFV/CG 1900. The only real difference to me is the use of CNC machining for the metal and wood work. Extreme uniformity it creates is what does not appeal to me. But all being relative, it's were we stand today. That's why I do prefer the old, hand fitted and jig machined stuff.
I have acquired several Zoli 1900 made rifles over the years and really honestly, I can't say they are not up to the same quality than the HVA/FFV/CG 1900. The only real difference to me is the use of CNC machining for the metal and wood work. Extreme uniformity it creates is what does not appeal to me. But all being relative, it's were we stand today. That's why I do prefer the old, hand fitted and jig machined stuff.
Baribal, that's a sentiment expressed by many, but I have a hard time really understanding it. If you had in front of you one CNC-machined rifle and one by the old hand-fitting method, does the hand-fitted one look and function better than the other? It seems to me that the CNC-machined one would likely have the better fit and overall build precision. However, maybe your preference stems more from the fact that the hand-fitted rifle will be unique--i.e., different from all other hand-fitted examples of the same make and model.
As an owner of a number of Sako rifles over the past 50 years, I know that most of the real Sako aficionados prefer the L- and A-series models, particularly the L-series which were all pre-CNC. I've owned a number of L-series Sakos, but must say that my most-recent Sako, an 85 (made probably 5-6 years ago), is, in almost every way, a better rifle, even though it will closely resemble all other 85s of the same model and grade.
My main beef about recently-made rifles is not the precision of their manufacture, but rather the use of cheap and synthetic parts--alloy bottom metal, plastic bolt sleeves, magazines, and trigger guards. As for the alloy bottom metal, this gets back to my original post, and is the main reason I've never been greatly attracted to a 1900 of any manufacture. I suspect (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Zoli did not replace this with an all-steel unit.
As an owner of a number of Sako rifles over the past 50 years, I know that most of the real Sako aficionados prefer the L- and A-series models, particularly the L-series which were all pre-CNC. I've owned a number of L-series Sakos, but must say that my most-recent Sako, an 85 (made probably 5-6 years ago), is, in almost every way, a better rifle, even though it will closely resemble all other 85s of the same model and grade.
My main beef about recently-made rifles is not the precision of their manufacture, but rather the use of cheap and synthetic parts--alloy bottom metal, plastic bolt sleeves, magazines, and trigger guards. As for the alloy bottom metal, this gets back to my original post, and is the main reason I've never been greatly attracted to a 1900 of any manufacture. I suspect (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Zoli did not replace this with an all-steel unit.
- Location
- Steel Town
To further your post, it appears that aluminum alloy bottom metal has been used for some time: 1900 series, Ruger M77 mk1, some PH's, etc. My CZ 557 also has cast alloy bottom metal (trigger guard / mag well, though the floor plate is steel). It drops a few oz's, so I am ok with it. The use of plastics, on the other hand, is unfortunately a reality in modern rifles. Usually fine, but soulless.
I agree with you. Hard to beat CNC machining in terms of tolerances.
I agree with you. Hard to beat CNC machining in terms of tolerances.
Yes, true, so not really a recent feature. Many of the pre-1900 Husqvarnas on the small-ring Mauser action (like the 1640, for example) had alloy bottom metal, true also for the Rem. 700 and Savage 110. My main issue with cast alloy bottom metal is aesthetic. In time, with use, the anodize (or paint) chips off leaving it looking terrible. Blued steel doesn't seem to suffer the same fate.
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Being in machanical engineering design by trade, I deeply understand what tolerances and CNC tightness mean. But to me, total uniformity is simply boring in the firearms world. I like my stuff to have thiny defects. I have high price guns on which you see there was a human hand which worked on it because of these "marks" and I feel there was love of the work and craftsmanship involved. It's not just a machine made tool... to each his own, I guess...
Repeatedly, I read complaints about an alloy floor plate on the 1900 actions....
Really? Is that that only complaint, and frankly: is it even justifiable?
Never have they known to fail, warp, rust or pit. Chip yes...however that never effected accuracy or functionality what so everrrrrrr...!
Consider all of the plastic parts used on $1K++ rifles these days, I'm find it disturbing that a well made, a well fitted alloy floor plate on such an amazing and accurate action, is such a point (more accurately - pointless) area of contention.....imho...
Really? Is that that only complaint, and frankly: is it even justifiable?
Never have they known to fail, warp, rust or pit. Chip yes...however that never effected accuracy or functionality what so everrrrrrr...!
Consider all of the plastic parts used on $1K++ rifles these days, I'm find it disturbing that a well made, a well fitted alloy floor plate on such an amazing and accurate action, is such a point (more accurately - pointless) area of contention.....imho...
The early 1600's had steel bottoms, you can see a few pics in this thread, more on 2nd page.
https://www.gunboards.com/threads/husqvarna-trigger-guard-floorplate.27691/
