Anyone interested in vintage guns as shooters?

Londonshooter

Londonshooter

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Location
SW Ontario
Here's my tale and maybe it is or is not a path you are interested in.
Bought this gun from the EE for $modest. Working guns with Jones underlevers do not come up often and jump on it or miss out.
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Black powder era with 2.5" chambers. A person needs a plan with respect to how to load for it, what chamber pressures are acceptable, what minimum barrel wall thickness (and where) is ok for your loads.
Here's another before picture and keep in mind what you are comfortable with your gun is not the same as me and my gun.
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Barrels had some pitting but had doublegun smith check everything out. In the end the wall thickness was going to be ok after a light hone but still needed mechanical work.
Repair to underlever: $modest
Remove dents, straighten muzzle, hone bores: $medium
Tighten hammer: $modest
Rejoint action and bring on face: $not a little
Make new hand pin: $modest
Make and engrave new hammer screw: $modest
Adjust hammers for proper strike angle: $modest
Refinish stocks: $medium
Recut checquer: $modest
Re-engrave buttplate screws: $modest
Shipping/taxes: $medium
Total = 5x purchase price.
Happy? Oh Yeah!
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Stock turned out great. I get where you are coming from and no one should fault a guy that has a passion. Are those Damascus barrels?
 
Very nice. I just picked up an old British double hammer 16 ha. Thinking what to do with it. Problem is it may have historical value due to being marked . Melbourne Australian centennial 1888-9 marked on barrels. Iam going to do some research before I decide what to do with it.

You have an expensive project but it is beautiful.
 
Your money, your gun, your choices. Have to say I agree with everything you did and a very nice shotgun indeed. One question and the same I face with a couple of my older vintage shotguns, what type of conditions will you use this gun? That is the only tough call I come up against because they are always my favourites.
 
brybenn said:
What smith did the actionwork. I have a charles daly that has a faint crack in a hammer i think. I'd like it looked at professionally.
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Bryan, you should just let me take that off your hands!
Nick Makinson, Komoka. Has a web page but phoning during the week after 10am will get him as his wife does email, not him.

Of course hats off to CJDawe who did an incredible job with very little wood to work with and no margin for error.

Am going to edit out the $ amounts as that is not what the thread is about.

Bland, I'm going to shoot it every 2 or 3 months at 5-stand and skeet. I have a few guns that I rotate through. If someone wants to invite me turkey hunting would bring it for sure!
 
A few years back there was an article in the Double Gun Journal regarding these vintage guns being brought back to life as shooters. . The articles went through the restoring procedure and one part I remember was the owner had the barrels sleeved with modern high pressure steel. . When the gun was finished the damascus patterns were clear and clean with no evidence showing of the bore sleeves and allowed the owner to shoot the gun without the worry of if or when the barrels would come apart. .
 
Rod said:
A few years back there was an article in the Double Gun Journal regarding these vintage guns being brought back to life as shooters. . The articles went through the restoring procedure and one part I remember was the owner had the barrels sleeved with modern high pressure steel. . When the gun was finished the damascus patterns were clear and clean with no evidence showing of the bore sleeves and allowed the owner to shoot the gun without the worry of if or when the barrels would come apart. .
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A rather expensive process and IIRC (I have every issue of the DGJ) no longer being offered by anyone, according to recent posts on the Double Gun Forums.
 
canvasback said:
A rather expensive process and IIRC (I have every issue of the DGJ) no longer being offered by anyone, according to recent posts on the Double Gun Forums.
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It was most likely 15 years back at least. . Time goes by so quickly now it tough to remember. . Don't recall the cost being mentioned but I doubt it would matter to those guys anyways. . If memory is somewhat correct I believe the barrel relining was done in England?? Tig or something similar.
 
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Here's a description and update on the Nigel Teague barrel lining method:
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/articles/barrel-lining/

To me, restoring a vintage gun that does not have barrels in reasonably good condition is a nonstarter - person would end up with a fancier wallhanger. It would have to be one heck of a gun that you just had to shoot again to justify sleeving (if there was someone in Canada that could/would do it).

Shooting loads with BP-equivalent peak pressures in sound damascus-barrelled guns does not bother me even a little bit. The Sherman Bell DGJ series of articles on destructive testing bears that out.
 
canvasback said:
A rather expensive process and IIRC (I have every issue of the DGJ) no longer being offered by anyone, according to recent posts on the Double Gun Forums.
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I recall Stephen Milton at Precision Arms was doing barrel resleeving at one point. If he stopped, I dont know, but his webite indicates that barrel sleeving is still an offer
 
1963beretta said:
I recall Stephen Milton at Precision Arms was doing barrel resleeving at one point. If he stopped, I dont know, but his webite indicates that barrel sleeving is still an offer
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Sleeving is an entirely different process than Teague lining. And relatively easy to find smiths who will do it. (I'm not suggesting it's easy to find one in Canada.)

I'm with John on this one. I would never buy a gun with barrels so far gone they required sleeving. I like using the originals. The only use I have for sleeving is perhaps to find a very nice gun that I normally could not afford, selling at a discount because it's been sleeved.

But the quality of the sleeving, most particularly the impact of the new barrels on weight, balance and handling, is critical. Additionally, even with an invisible seam, the two types of metal that the barrels now consist of (original monoblock and new tubes) will always have a slight colour difference, even after being blued.

In general, it's a subject best avoided, IMHO.

Inspect your barrels.

Have them accurately measured for barrel wall thickness. (Note I don't say "minimum". The minimum safe measurement is different at different points along the length of the barrel. Minimum barrel wall thickness has become a common place term because it's a shortcut for guidance on how much the barrels have been honed out. But it's not definitive. BTW, no difference for older fluid steel or Damascus....all these rules guidelines apply and both can be equally safe or equally dangerous. Depends on the specific history and condition of any given set of barrels. )

Educate yourself as to what is safe.

Shoot appropriate pressure loads.

BTW, John, great looking gun!
 
Londonshooter said:
Bryan, you should just let me take that off your hands!
Nick Makinson, Komoka. Has a web page but phoning during the week after 10am will get him as his wife does email, not him.

Thanks for the offer but the gun has great personal meaning to me. It belonged to the gentleman who got me started in skeet and started my love for sxs guns. His health is not well and he can no longer shoot. I couldnt afford his holland and holland royal unfortunately or some ofhis other fine guns. I was lacking and wanting a damascus barreled hammer gun and we struck a deal on the charles daly.
In use the left hammer cracked and george wortner removedthe hammer so i had a friend weld it and george reinstalled it. It worked great but i noticed what looks like a hairline crack in the other so i stopped using it for now
I plan on making a trip to see nick about it and also my 4e ithaca trap gun as well as threading my ten ga sxs for chokes. Home renos and a new born has ate up my time and alot of my savings.

I maybe able to get you out turkey hunting this season
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I love shooting and hunting with vintage guns, especially hammer doubles!
Excellent work done on that Jones underlever, for sure!!
As for barrel sleeves, I would not do it personally.....
Cat
 
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