Anyone molding/loading 124 gr. 9mm Lee tumble lube mold

Rottboy_8

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Need some advise and help from those in the know. Have had my [/U] Lee 6 cavity mold (124 gr. RN tumble lube) for the past two months and still making only test batches. Initial problems were inaccuracy and excessive keyholing. A local commercial reloader suggested that I change powder (from W231 to Longshot). It significantly reduced keyholing but they are still not grouping consistently. All are sized to .357 and there is next to no leading (tumble lubed). My crimp is just enough to remove belling.
Its fun to load rounds you know will be reliable and accurate. For now, have just had plain bad luck with my Lee molded 9mm lead bullets. Very frustrating!!!
Also mold .40 S&W (175 gr. TH) and .45 acp (200 gr. SWC) using the same Lee 6 cavity tumble lube molds. These come out extremely accurate and reliable.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Am willing try your succesfull recipies.
Am loading CCL heads for use in competition with no problems but would be great if I can solve this current dilema. Help needed fellow loaders!:bangHead:
 
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im having the same problem but with a 2 cavity 124grn tc mold. using w231 what w231 load were you using? i have not messed around much with it yet though i have been far to busy lately
 
I wonder if your bullets are a little small - and are not getting their proper spin from the rifling.

Lee suggests no sizing - so I would suggest the same - cast some, and load them unsized, and watch very close for any change in your tumbling problem.

If there is any possibility that they are too small, set a few upright on a hard place and smack 'em with a hammer - thus making them a little more squatty - just a little - now run them through the sizer and try them. It sounds strange, but if they behave differently, there is something to learn from it.

Good Luck
 
I wonder if your bullets are a little small -
Good Luck

Did consider that but from the onset. Initially, some of the bullets molded were measuring .360+. I sized them to .357. With 9mm being .355 I'm sure they are not undersized. If I don't size them, chambering problems occur.
Will definitely need the good luck!
 
Whoo - .360 sounds like a rough mold - or something between the blocks. If you cast again, keep the bullets from each cavity in separate piles - so that you can measure and inspect for roundness etc - and see if one end of the mold is putting out weird sizes or shapes. You have likely checked the pins already.

Spinning an abrasive-coated bullet in each cavity does a lot to make the bullets nicer - and drop out nice. You maybe knew that.

I think that the instructions from Lee suggest better accuracy with less sizing - or it might be an old memory from Castboolits.com
 
Whoo - .360 sounds like a rough mold - .....Lee suggest better accuracy with less sizing - or it might be an old memory from Castboolits.com

Uupps, gave the wrong impression. Got a "few" that I miked at .360 but the majority pass through the .357 sizer with little effort. Initially, tried the Lee way, but had chambering issues which sizing solved completely. Back to the drawing board!!!! :bangHead:
Appreciate the suggestion. Happy shooting!!!
 
Geee... scratch head... so you are maybe shooting these in a 226 - I guess - it is coming down to guessing now - that a guy could slug the barrel to find the real bore size - and - another guess - a little more powder sometimes changes something - maybe upsetting the bullet to fit better.

I am coming up empty - and I am surprised that the slower Longshot helped - I would maybe have gone for a little more powder, or a faster powder - just to try to stop the tumbling.

I will shuffle off now.
 
Did consider that but from the onset. Initially, some of the bullets molded were measuring .360+. I sized them to .357. With 9mm being .355 I'm sure they are not undersized. If I don't size them, chambering problems occur.
Will definitely need the good luck!


It sounds like you have not slugged the bore of your 9mm. Sizing to .357 while 'guessing' at your bore dimensions is a waste of time. Get a soft lead slug, push an oiled patch through your clean barrel and then GENTLY tap the slug thru the barrel. Mic it out and you have an idea as to what you should be sizing your bullets at.... 0.001 over whatever your barrel measures.

I've had some casty bullets tumble too...namely the 175 Lee SWC-TL. Adding a bit more speed to the recipie solved the problem.
 
......not slugged the bore of your 9mm. .....Get a soft lead slug, ........and then GENTLY tap the slug thru the barrel. ....
I've had some casty bullets tumble too...namely the 175 Lee SWC-TL. .....

Dr.N, Did it! Here are the results:
Sig 226, Beretta w/ Barsto barrel, CZ 85 - .355
G17 w/ Lone Wolff barrel - .3553

With both W231 & Longshot, I did at least 5 different (gr.) loads each. As mentioned, have keyholing under control. Its accuracy thats driving me crazy.

What are you using the 175 Lee SWC for? Is it .40 S&W? Also mold that caliber plus 200 gr. SWC .45 acp. These both give me reloads that are very accurate and supremely reliable. No issues with Lee Precision on these!

Another area eliminated (thanks). Back to the drawing board!:bangHead:
 
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i found the fix i ad the same keyhole i fix it with oal i put it at max and now used any pouwder for 9mm and no keyhole and notice that with only 9mm? today i pass 350bullets of 9mm and no keyhole bang!bang!
 
I use the same mold and the same powder W231 4 grains. My OAL is 1.134. Something I have found is it needs a fairly heavy crimp, to build pressure before sendoff. I have had no keyholing. Gun is a STI Trojan SS.
Accuracy is 36 rounds inside a 5" circle from 10 yards.
 
i found the fix ....with oal i put it at max and now used any pouwder for 9mm and no keyhole and notice that with only 9mm?....no keyhole ...bang!bang!

I use the same mold and the same powder W231 4 grains. My OAL is 1.134...........I have had no keyholing. Gun is a STI Trojan SS. Accuracy is 36 rounds inside a 5" circle from 10 yards.

You guys are great! Just came from my loading area and did 30 test rounds maxing OAL. Have measured max OAL for all my 9mm's and the shortest max is the CZ85 at 1.174. Did 3 loads with OAL at 1.125, 1.145 & 1.155. Hope to test these out by the weekend.
Had a feeling that it may not be the powder since no keyhole/accuracy issues when loading other commercially available lead 124 gr. and CCL's with W231.:agree:
BTW, in my frustrated state, also wrote to Lee Precision and their tech sent me a reply yesterday urging me to increase OAL. Only after reading your good results did I have the confidence to do so. Will post the results. Happy shooting boys!!!!
Hey tigrr - nice gun you have. Love dem 1911's.:rockOn:
 
I reload lee 125gr. round nose TL lead with 6.3gr. of hs-6 with COL of 1.125" and I have to say I'm pretty satisfied. I never had a problem shooting it out of a glock 17 with lone wolf barrel.
 
I played with it all fall and winter.
I need the bullet to fly fast enough to meet power factor for IDPA
Weight in grains X velocity in f/s has to equal 125000 or better.
First talk is cheap, measure then measure again.
Measure every thing
Start with max OAL and you might want to stay there, in rapid fire (pistol) rounds can move around and cause feeding problems.
Also shape can be very important; you can check this by cycling a very soft dummy round and look for damage. The curve and the length help guide the round into the throat into battery. A damaged bullet may not fly right.
Bullets "bump" when slowed down by the barrel, so sizing is important to a point.
Your loading dies will resize the bullet inside the case and if you use the Lee 4th die it will re size it again.
Size all you want but your dies will too, measure.
In your reloading book it will state pressure divide that by 1440 and that will give you the hardness needed in BHN.
Get a lead hardness tester all WW are not equal, Lee sells one.
Also you will find the same bullet mould will cast different size bullets based on the alloy used.
Most moulds are set up for #2 Layman which is a far cry from WW, water drop that and it is harder than FMJ.
FMJ and lead are in two different worlds FMJ is more like a water balloon with a hard flexible jacket.
Cast for hardness and uniform size from the mould will follow: for example I cast 9mm at 13.9 BHN testes right after water dropped.
It will harden up to about 22.7 BHN in less than 2 days after six months it’s up around 27.
It shoots without stripping the rifling and zero leading ( I have recovered about 100 rounds or so this winter)
Crony your loads.
Weight and adjust your powder as needed.
Power doesn’t matter and that’s a whole new thread.
Once your lead is hard enough unstable flight of bullets and leading will stop.
Accuracy for me in my 92fs just wasn't there with this mould.
I wanted 10 rounds (100% on target) 8" @ 25 yards from a concealed draw safety / decocker on in under 10 seconds using a timer set to randomly to go off.
This bullet just couldn't do it.
I ended up going with Lee’s 358-150-1R
My 92 slugged out at 356 just a spec’d.
I tried 356, 357, 358.
It liked 358 even thou the bullet covered by casing got sized down anyway.
So I sized then to 358 and tumble tube them twice with light coats.
The upside of having the crimp groove is it is a place for the crud to go bc it can build up and effect head spacing and stop the gun from going into battery.
I use a half turn on the four die as a slight crimp.
Now that’s where powder is a concern, some are dirtier than others.
Fouling from the lube and powder can build up in the throat and cause battery problems.
Faster powders ten to be cleaner, ball powders are easier to work with.
As for accuracy in under 10 seconds first round being double action I ended up with a sub 6 inch group
Lee’s Tumble lube works but it for me it has become a limiting factor.
The smoke obscures the target during rapid fire combine that with a higher cost of casting harder lead, a change is coming.
I have be put on a waiting list for a Star Lubersizer so we’ll see how that works, if not I will probably got to bulk FMJ bullets.
I intend to compete using my 45acp bc it’s cheaper to shoot, easier to cast for and easier to get primers.
Bottom line
you need to measure your lead hardness
slower rounds are easier and cheaper to cast
Lead isn’t FMJ
Measure Measure Measure
Read Cast Bullet Handbook by Lyman
Be aware some companies just collect information and copy products.
Which isn’t always a bad thing, but when casting go to the original source “Lyman”
Man if I had I could have saved about a grand and a lot of time.
Reloading and casting is not black magic, but a repeatable science.
 
Problem Fixed

Finally after months of testing and frustrating results the fix has materialized. Used the mold for around 2,000 rnds and the front pin started to detached after making a couple of hundred rounds. The supplier replaced it under warranty - that was the solution!!!
In comparing the bullets, the 1st mold had a pointed profile while the 2nd mold was shorter but stubbier. Strange as both boxes had the same part #'s. Must have gotten a dud first time around.
Nevertheless, thanks to all the advise given, my reloading process is more exact. The mystery of my keyholing and inaccurate 9mm is a thing of the past. Thanks guys!!! Happy shooting to us all.:dancingbanana:

Anyone using this Lee 124 gr RN Tumble Mold with Titegroup? Any load info would be great. Am looking for a load that would get me a 125-130 PF. Mucho thanks fellas.
 
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For the folks that are new to this stuff, TL bullets from Lee molds should not be sized in any manner. The small grooves will collapse or be wiped out by sizer and it will not always be concentric,(out of round). This, as well as wrong size, or too hard, and some funky Euro rifling, can all work to cause bullet wobble and keyholing.
 
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