Anyone still neck size only?
- Thread starter Grizzlypeg
- Start date
Nothing to lose at all IMHO.
If the cartridges are going to be used for hunting, doesn't require much effort to cycle them through before the outing or trip to eliminate issues.
Really should do that anyway for hunting, defence or match that matters ammo; it's the cheapest insurance around. Murphy is a cruel, heartless bastard, but that aside from that is pretty reliable company and is never too busy to come along. Just gotta watch him.
I've got many neck sizing dies but it's pretty rare that they ever get used.
I have a Lyman cartridge gauge that I check 308 ammo in, and its actually fussier than the chamber in my rifle. I have them for a few different cartridges. Very handy, I run the brass through it before charging the cases. Some rifles, the chamber is tight enough that fired brass will still drop into the chamber gauge, like the one I am doing the neck only sizing on. But other rifles like my Garands or M14's, the brass is out of spec enough after firing that it won't drop in.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Yes... but mine took quite a bit longer. They will give you a ball park if you call down.
Jerry
His comments and vids have to be taken in context. Sure, everyone he polled at the national match said what he wanted, one even tried to stipulate 2 thou bump, but that was lost in the main message. All those guys have rifles with probaly the smallest chambers possible, so what works for them likely doesn't fit for most average shooters
I see people state they only neck size for cartridges with sharp tapered cases, such as the 303 Brit.
Unless you're shooting handgun cartridges, pretty much any bottleneck case has a taper of some degree.
IF your rifle's chamber isn't close to the minimum median spec, that case will "tilt" in the chamber and very likely cause your groups to open up, especially if the throat dimensions are also on the large side. Freebore will only exacerbate the condition.
Today, it isn't uncommon to see newly designed cartridges with one-caliber neck lengths.
There's a good reason for this. It allows for better utilization of powder space and it's more than enough to hold the bullet in place under most conditions.
Not only that, with today's very good machining capabilities and the advancement of tech with CNC machines keeping chambers within tight tolerances is much easier and cheaper than it would have been back in the day.
Different metallurgy in the cartridge cases also makes for much easier and more positive extraction, even when specified pressures have been exceeded.
By reducing the tapers on cartridge cases, the manufacturers also decreased one of the issues detrimental to accuracy, TILT IN THE CHAMBER.
This situation only got better with new tech.
The people in our past knew what was necessary for a rifle to be accurate so they had to design their cartridges in a manner that would partially overcome the shortfalls with their existing tech.
What they did, was extend the necks of the cartridges so they would fit deeper into the chambers and alleviate the TILT issues.
Just like today, they had to build their stuff to fit "everyone's chamber" so they worked it out accordingly.
It wasn't all that long ago when any hunting rifle capable of shooting into four inches at 100yds, from a rested position was considered to be just fine.
Most folks didn't hand load then, just like today.
The people here are different only in that a larger percentage of them handload. Most people still shoot factory-loaded ammo only and it's understandable.
Today's factory ammo is better than it was ten years ago and so are the tolerances in the new rifles.
For those that shoot less than a hundred rounds per year, why go through the cost, time, and take up space required for reloading cartridges?
Most people will not experiment with what's best for their rifles. It's always been that way and though you hardly see it anymore, there was a time when writers for firearms magazines would always print some "wonder load" and a hoard of readers would immediately head to the bench and load up as many as they could to duplicate the author's magic load.
Anyone that loads, knows that load is only magic for the "author's rifle" and maybe the odd other out there.
Most folks I know "don't full length neck size" They "partially neck size" so that the base of the neck is the same diameter as the chamber in the rifle it was last shot out of.
This is enough to hold the bullet centered to the axis of the bore when it enters the leade and keep it that way until it establishes enough contact so it won't cant.
It's an old trick that still works well today for those trying to wring the last bit of accuracy out of their handloads and it often will bring new life back to older firearms with chambers cut on the large side.
Unless you're shooting handgun cartridges, pretty much any bottleneck case has a taper of some degree.
IF your rifle's chamber isn't close to the minimum median spec, that case will "tilt" in the chamber and very likely cause your groups to open up, especially if the throat dimensions are also on the large side. Freebore will only exacerbate the condition.
Today, it isn't uncommon to see newly designed cartridges with one-caliber neck lengths.
There's a good reason for this. It allows for better utilization of powder space and it's more than enough to hold the bullet in place under most conditions.
Not only that, with today's very good machining capabilities and the advancement of tech with CNC machines keeping chambers within tight tolerances is much easier and cheaper than it would have been back in the day.
Different metallurgy in the cartridge cases also makes for much easier and more positive extraction, even when specified pressures have been exceeded.
By reducing the tapers on cartridge cases, the manufacturers also decreased one of the issues detrimental to accuracy, TILT IN THE CHAMBER.
This situation only got better with new tech.
The people in our past knew what was necessary for a rifle to be accurate so they had to design their cartridges in a manner that would partially overcome the shortfalls with their existing tech.
What they did, was extend the necks of the cartridges so they would fit deeper into the chambers and alleviate the TILT issues.
Just like today, they had to build their stuff to fit "everyone's chamber" so they worked it out accordingly.
It wasn't all that long ago when any hunting rifle capable of shooting into four inches at 100yds, from a rested position was considered to be just fine.
Most folks didn't hand load then, just like today.
The people here are different only in that a larger percentage of them handload. Most people still shoot factory-loaded ammo only and it's understandable.
Today's factory ammo is better than it was ten years ago and so are the tolerances in the new rifles.
For those that shoot less than a hundred rounds per year, why go through the cost, time, and take up space required for reloading cartridges?
Most people will not experiment with what's best for their rifles. It's always been that way and though you hardly see it anymore, there was a time when writers for firearms magazines would always print some "wonder load" and a hoard of readers would immediately head to the bench and load up as many as they could to duplicate the author's magic load.
Anyone that loads, knows that load is only magic for the "author's rifle" and maybe the odd other out there.
Most folks I know "don't full length neck size" They "partially neck size" so that the base of the neck is the same diameter as the chamber in the rifle it was last shot out of.
This is enough to hold the bullet centered to the axis of the bore when it enters the leade and keep it that way until it establishes enough contact so it won't cant.
It's an old trick that still works well today for those trying to wring the last bit of accuracy out of their handloads and it often will bring new life back to older firearms with chambers cut on the large side.
This. And it's never an absolute. Neck size for a while, bump the shoulders back, neck size for another while, etc. - dan
I neck size for target guns, even tried a little experiment with once fired brass. Did the same load, left is a full sized case, middle is minimal bump, right is neck sized.
I wanted to see if I was missing out just neck sizing. I don't compete except against myself, don't load hot, I use Redding and Forster neck dies, Hornady seater.
I wanted to see if I was missing out just neck sizing. I don't compete except against myself, don't load hot, I use Redding and Forster neck dies, Hornady seater.
9mikemike
CGN frequent flyer
I have neck size for all of my calibers, very rarely FL. I have 3 - 308's that I neck size only on, 2 hunting rifles and my PR comp rifle all have very similar chambers and it's not an issue.
I have an M14 that I can't use the brass from in my other rifles because the chamber is CHINA quality lol
I have an M14 that I can't use the brass from in my other rifles because the chamber is CHINA quality lol
Am actually looking for a neck sizer for my .257 Robert's. Gun I inherited has a unique chamber, its not AI, and standard .257 Bob brass/dies don't fit it. Have a bunch of 1x fired for it from the original owner, going to try neck sizing until I can't get away with it, and order a custom die, which I assume will be a few bucks.
It's not unusual for US made M14s to have larger chambers than most sporting rifles. I had one Norinco M305 that shot extremely well and it had a "tight chamber" It would not chamber a once-fired round, that was neck sized only. I've also had M305 rifles with sloppy chambers.
One US M14 I used to use for match shooting was an out of the crate TRW that was IDF surplus. The chamber duplicated my Palma Match reamer dimensions and that thing would shoot just about anything 7.62x51 well, other than IVI, Canadian ammo.
Wow! Dramatic results there! What calibre if you don't mind?
I neck size for target guns, even tried a little experiment with once fired brass. Did the same load, left is a full sized case, middle is minimal bump, right is neck sized.
I wanted to see if I was missing out just neck sizing. I don't compete except against myself, don't load hot, I use Redding and Forster neck dies, Hornady seater.
6.5CM, one of those Savage 10TR or whatever Cabellas use to sell for $500, 24" heavy barrel, stock was terrible though, this was after I bedded it, filled the butt with lead wheel weights and caulking, epoxies a steel rod into the forend, weighed a ton after that but shot well. Ended up getting a black Friday XRS for it for $200 a couple years ago and it wears that now.
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A competition target rifle yes. A hunting rifle no. If you seek .21 and .27 groups you do all you can, to achieve that. Some times, it is neck size only.
You have to incorporate annealing and trimming into the equation. My go to was neck size 4 times anneal, full resize and shoot some nice groups.
You have to incorporate annealing and trimming into the equation. My go to was neck size 4 times anneal, full resize and shoot some nice groups.
I encourage all my opponents in the types of Precision Rifle competitions that I shoot, that are often shot in the dust and the wet, and where one shot is often the difference between placing or not to neck size only and for the bonus round run a tight neck chamber.
Some great interviews by Erik C in the Podcast Believe The Target with Jack Neary and Speedy G(Benchrest Hall of Fame Members) and others if you want their views on Neck Sizing.
Some great interviews by Erik C in the Podcast Believe The Target with Jack Neary and Speedy G(Benchrest Hall of Fame Members) and others if you want their views on Neck Sizing.
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Yes, I have a set of Lee collet dies I use for 6.5 x 55. Works very well for me. When I get some once fired brass, I do an initial full length resize. Three different rifles, no issues; Obendorf 1900 M96; HVA 1943 M38 and a Zastava M70 I bought new a few years back. I would like to get a set for the 9.3 x 62, but I don't shoot it a lot.
