anyone think they would buy a Canadian made M14 chasis system?
- Thread starter suprathepeg
- Start date
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- Edmonton, AB
That might pique my interest then 
Yes for what it is the Troy rail is way overpriced. Add to that the way the upper portion on the Troy MCS is a bit goofy in the way it mounts. All that aluminum mass and none of it does any good in cooling the barrel. Its also really heavy.
Air circluting arround the barrel. Free Float go ahead the Mini 14 will have much better accurracy than the M14 . The M14 relys on the barrel being under tension to deliver the accuracy
depending how it attaches to the barrel it could also act as a heat sink
rommelrommel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I guess my point was that if it actually has enough surface area touching the barrel to transfer significant amounts of heat that it would probably detract from accuracy. The Troy does seem to have a fair bit of ventilation.
I guess in some screwed up way 435 for a full forward rail probably isn't that bad compared to the $275 smith enterprises scope mount that you'll probably still use an ARMS riser on.
I guess in some screwed up way 435 for a full forward rail probably isn't that bad compared to the $275 smith enterprises scope mount that you'll probably still use an ARMS riser on.
I wish you all a profit. At least a product made in Canada can easily be exported to almost any country. Very few understand the overhead in making a product and what it really costs. If you have a cnc centre in a back shed and don't really have to work for a living and don't mind subsidizing all the shooters out there then you can sell at what most will call reasonable. Good luck!
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Free Float go ahead the Mini 14 will have much better accurracy than the M14 . The M14 relys on the barrel being under tension to deliver the accuracy
I've got to state that IMHO the above quote is far too simplistic.
The M-14 is a complicated system, and changing any single component of the M14 can effect other parts of the system in strange and unexpected ways. Accurising an M14 is not a simple "cause and effect" relationship. Theoretically, anything that improves CONSISTENCY should improve accuracy, which is why so many tuners seek accuracy through shimming the gas assembly or "unitising" the gas assembly with the front handguard/forend mounting point.
In my experience, forend tension is only a small part of the equation. In case you didn't know this already, the front of the barrel on an M14 is quite flexible. With the receiver mounted tight to the stock, and the barrel unsupported at the forend, the barrel can flex at least 1/2" at the muzzle under light hand tension. Do the math …. imagine what a bullet leaving the muzzle with a difference of ½” in 22” can do to your group size at 100 yds.!!!
HINT: ½” is to 22” as X is to 3600”.
Yep, in a worst case scenario, with maximum barrel whip, X is immense.
The forend tension is there in an M14 to provide CONSISTENT barrel return to the same spot. This is very important for the next shot. This is also why you should have a drop of grease there, between the forend and the barrel band ... to allow the barrel and forend to slide freely and freely return to the same spot after every shot.
Barrel vibration is an important component of accuracy, and with the M14, which is a semi auto mechanism, you have a rather large reciprocating mass [ the op rod ] that is connected to the barrel. The op rod weighs a significant percentage of the barrel itself, so that reciprocating mass theoretically can have a MAJOR effect on barrel vibration and therefore accuracy. Anything you can do to dampen vibration from that large reciprocating mass, may have a positive effect on barrel vibration, which can again have a positive effect on accuracy.
This is why the “shok buff” recoil buffer , the round op rod spring guide, etc. can provide some benefits. By minimizing the op rods effect on barrel vibration, these changes can minimize how far off true zero the barrel is when the bullet leaves the muzzle. And this can minimize group size.
Stiffening the barrel by shortening the length, increasing diameter [ HEAVY barrel ], fluting, cryo treating, etc, also minimize the vibrations and minimize overall barrel whip. And theoretically, this should improve accuracy for all loads. Some rigidly mounted handguards may also help minimize barrel whip.
Then there are the vibration “tuning” devices, like the BOSS adjustable threaded system, or attaching a different weight of muzzle brake or flash hider. These “tune” the vibrations to have some loads consistently leave the barrel at exactly the same vibrational point. For those loads that the barrel is tuned for, accuracy can be very impressive indeed.
Then there are the systems that mount the receiver more solidly, more rigidly. The JAE design uses threaded screws to provide consistently repeatable receiver/stock tension. Other designs use other methods to improve overall receiver/barrel rigidity. The AKM for example uses a so called “free floating” barrel, which adds another mounting point for the barrel at the op rod guide, and deletes the forward barrel mounting/tensioning point at the forend. The AKM uses two side screws through the stock forend.
Personally, I am experimenting with “free floating” the M14 barrel, using a modification of the AKM design [ bottom tensioning with screws and spacers to a rigid aluminum channel ]. Further testing is required, but since both the AKM and the JAE are known for rather decent accuracy, I expect good results.
So, to go back to my first comments,
The M-14 is a complicated system,
And stating that free floating an M-14 barrel will result in unacceptable accuracy, is a rather simplistic remark.
PS: In the dozens of chop jobs I've done on M14 barrels, all othe things being equal, almost all of the shortened barrels showed the same or better accuracy that the uncut barrels.
LAZ 1
I've got to state that IMHO the above quote is far too simplistic.
The M-14 is a complicated system, and changing any single component of the M14 can effect other parts of the system in strange and unexpected ways. Accurising an M14 is not a simple "cause and effect" relationship. Theoretically, anything that improves CONSISTENCY should improve accuracy, which is why so many tuners seek accuracy through shimming the gas assembly or "unitising" the gas assembly with the front handguard/forend mounting point.
In my experience, forend tension is only a small part of the equation. In case you didn't know this already, the front of the barrel on an M14 is quite flexible. With the receiver mounted tight to the stock, and the barrel unsupported at the forend, the barrel can flex at least 1/2" at the muzzle under light hand tension. Do the math …. imagine what a bullet leaving the muzzle with a difference of ½” in 22” can do to your group size at 100 yds.!!!
HINT: ½” is to 22” as X is to 3600”.
Yep, in a worst case scenario, with maximum barrel whip, X is immense.
The forend tension is there in an M14 to provide CONSISTENT barrel return to the same spot. This is very important for the next shot. This is also why you should have a drop of grease there, between the forend and the barrel band ... to allow the barrel and forend to slide freely and freely return to the same spot after every shot.
Barrel vibration is an important component of accuracy, and with the M14, which is a semi auto mechanism, you have a rather large reciprocating mass [ the op rod ] that is connected to the barrel. The op rod weighs a significant percentage of the barrel itself, so that reciprocating mass theoretically can have a MAJOR effect on barrel vibration and therefore accuracy. Anything you can do to dampen vibration from that large reciprocating mass, may have a positive effect on barrel vibration, which can again have a positive effect on accuracy.
This is why the “shok buff” recoil buffer , the round op rod spring guide, etc. can provide some benefits. By minimizing the op rods effect on barrel vibration, these changes can minimize how far off true zero the barrel is when the bullet leaves the muzzle. And this can minimize group size.
Stiffening the barrel by shortening the length, increasing diameter [ HEAVY barrel ], fluting, cryo treating, etc, also minimize the vibrations and minimize overall barrel whip. And theoretically, this should improve accuracy for all loads. Some rigidly mounted handguards may also help minimize barrel whip.
Then there are the vibration “tuning” devices, like the BOSS adjustable threaded system, or attaching a different weight of muzzle brake or flash hider. These “tune” the vibrations to have some loads consistently leave the barrel at exactly the same vibrational point. For those loads that the barrel is tuned for, accuracy can be very impressive indeed.
Then there are the systems that mount the receiver more solidly, more rigidly. The JAE design uses threaded screws to provide consistently repeatable receiver/stock tension. Other designs use other methods to improve overall receiver/barrel rigidity. The AKM for example uses a so called “free floating” barrel, which adds another mounting point for the barrel at the op rod guide, and deletes the forward barrel mounting/tensioning point at the forend. The AKM uses two side screws through the stock forend.
Personally, I am experimenting with “free floating” the M14 barrel, using a modification of the AKM design [ bottom tensioning with screws and spacers to a rigid aluminum channel ]. Further testing is required, but since both the AKM and the JAE are known for rather decent accuracy, I expect good results.
So, to go back to my first comments,
The M-14 is a complicated system,
And stating that free floating an M-14 barrel will result in unacceptable accuracy, is a rather simplistic remark.
PS: In the dozens of chop jobs I've done on M14 barrels, all othe things being equal, almost all of the shortened barrels showed the same or better accuracy that the uncut barrels.
LAZ 1
Perhaps this is just me, but wouldn't you NOT want the rail where your optics are mounted heating up/cooling down repeatedly and changing your POI? Isn't it the point of a secure mounting to remove as many accuracy affecting factors as possible?
No the rail acts to absorb and dissipate heat while adding rigidity to the barrel. reducing whip and increasing the consistency.
I am interested can you give more detail on this VIRON system?
Excuse me but for a rail to act as heat sink it must be in direct contact with the barrel the other points are correct Rigidity and consistency
The problem with Viron is they are not a US State Dept Approved exporter as well tthere parts are marketed M14 not M1A which would indicate that it is for a sporting arm and be easier to export rather than the Military designation M 14
Yes one reason I'm not a fan of the Troy but am a fan of the Ultimak.
