Anyone use these?

H

harley1973

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Anyone have any experience with any of these set-ups? Whats a better option as I haven't owned or used eaither...

*comp m4s with 3x mag*

http://www.ultimak.com/AP3xMag.htm

or

http://www.gunblast.com/Trijicon_ACOG-Docter.htm

*Acog with doctor optic*

Idea is I want a dual role optic.
 
I have both.

Hands down winner is the ACOG with the docter or other optic mounted on top.

The 4x magnification is better then the aimpoint, and the 0x is much faster then removing the magnifier.

If you are located anywhere near London you can meet me at a range and try them both out.

Cheers
 
Trac said:
I have both.

Hands down winner is the ACOG with the docter or other optic mounted on top.

The 4x magnification is better then the aimpoint, and the 0x is much faster then removing the magnifier.

If you are located anywhere near London you can meet me at a range and try them both out.

Cheers
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:agree:
 
The better option is a 1-(X) variable power optic.

Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x, S&B Short Dot II 1.1-4x, Swarovski Z6i 1-6x, etc. (and whenever we start seeing 1.1-8x's in Canada...).

Better FOV and glass than the magnifiers from Aimpoint or EOTech. Use of a reticle for hold over and drop vs. just dot hold.

You have one sight plane, as opposed to the low-cheek/high-chin weld you have with the ACOG + Doctor.
 
carbineone said:
the better option is a 1-(x) variable power optic.

Trijicon accupoint 1-4x, s&b short dot ii 1.1-4x, swarovski z6i 1-6x, etc. (and whenever we start seeing 1.1-8x's in canada...).

Better fov and glass than the magnifiers from aimpoint or eotech. Use of a reticle for hold over and drop vs. Just dot hold.

You have one sight plane, as opposed to the low-cheek/high-chin weld you have with the acog + doctor.
Click to expand...

ditto
 
CarbineOne said:
The better option is a 1-(X) variable power optic.

Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x, S&B Short Dot II 1.1-4x, Swarovski Z6i 1-6x, etc. (and whenever we start seeing 1.1-8x's in Canada...).

Better FOV and glass than the magnifiers from Aimpoint or EOTech. Use of a reticle for hold over and drop vs. just dot hold.

You have one sight plane, as opposed to the low-cheek/high-chin weld you have with the ACOG + Doctor.
Click to expand...

+1 it's like he knows what he's talking about ;)
 
really acog for cqb??? how can you do that with a 4x??? Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x, S&B Short Dot II 1.1-4x, Swarovski Z6i 1-6x, all good but the one thing I like about the aimpoint and acog is toughness how does that set-up compare... So it seems red dots are not best? so whats my best bet then ...( what reticle)
 
harley1973 said:
really acog for cqb??? how can you do that with a 4x???
Click to expand...

Firstly, I'm not suggesting the ACOG should be the preferred optic for such tasks, just that it is 'do-able'

In close quarters with the bindon aiming concept the shooter is shooting both eyes open, and looking 'through' but focusing past the scope with both eyes (on the threat or target) not focusing with the 4 power optics. Your eyes will still pick up the dot or chevron along with a bit of the clutter from the body of the scope, but it is as if the dot is imposed on the target in the near distance. It takes some getting used to, and does not feel near as natural as say doing it with something that is further than 25m-50m.
 
harley1973 said:
really acog for cqb??? how can you do that with a 4x??? Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x, S&B Short Dot II 1.1-4x, Swarovski Z6i 1-6x, all good but the one thing I like about the aimpoint and acog is toughness how does that set-up compare... So it seems red dots are not best? so whats my best bet then ...( what reticle)
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Budget?
 
I've got an Eotech with a Mako 5x magnifier on a Samson flip to side mount.

For my needs, it's awesome, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. For the money, it's a setup that works well.

If money was not a factor, I may have gone a different way.
 
beltfed said:
Firstly, I'm not suggesting the ACOG should be the preferred optic for such tasks, just that it is 'do-able'

In close quarters with the bindon aiming concept the shooter is shooting both eyes open, and looking 'through' but focusing past the scope with both eyes (on the threat or target) not focusing with the 4 power optics. Your eyes will still pick up the dot or chevron along with a bit of the clutter from the body of the scope, but it is as if the dot is imposed on the target in the near distance. It takes some getting used to, and does not feel near as natural as say doing it with something that is further than 25m-50m.
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x2 on that.

It took a while to get used to (read a fair amount of time at the range), but after you've got the hang of it, it's not too bad. Again, I'll emphasize that it would definitely not be my first choice for a dedicated CQB optic, but for an "all round" optic that will be used from CQB distances out past 300m, it's not a bad choice (especially if you're on a 'weight budget'). Ideally I'd be running a S&B Short Dot (and may still look at one of the 1.1-8x models when they make it here), but it's heavier and more expensive. I went with the ACOG because one was available and I hadn't owned one before, so I wanted to try it. :D

I should also note that it's on a full size Swiss Arms... not exactly what I would choose for a CQB rifle. Either way, I have an LMT 14.5" Defender on order from Questar which will wear an Aimpoint of some variety (when I have the cash... until then... rocking irons for me :cool:).
 
harley1973 said:
really acog for cqb??? how can you do that with a 4x??? Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x, S&B Short Dot II 1.1-4x, Swarovski Z6i 1-6x, all good but the one thing I like about the aimpoint and acog is toughness how does that set-up compare... So it seems red dots are not best? so whats my best bet then ...( what reticle)
Click to expand...


Look up the BAC aiming method.

Better yet, look through a gun with an ACOG on it. If you aim with both eyes open, with practice, your mind can combine the image of your target from your left eye (assuming you are right handed) and overlay the reticle you are seeing with your right eye. Essentially giving you the target at 1x with the normal ACOG reticle over it.

It's easier to accomplish this when you are moving the sight picture around (i.e. back and fourth). When you stop moving it, your mind tends to snap to the 4x mode. I practice holding the ACOG motionless and still seeing the target in 1x with the reticle from my right eye over top of it. It can be done. You have to get used to it though.

That being said ACOG's are far from the best CQB optic.

Just ask the USMC. They cleared every room in Fallujah with 20" M-16A4's and 4x ACOGs. Firefights occured from distances of 4 feet and up.
 
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I was running both eotech and aimpoint with the 3x magnifiers for awhile, and then I started to do the math on it. Eotech isn't so bad but after costing out the aimpoint with a decent mount and the magnifier with either the twist or flip mount, your not that far off on price or weight to a good acog or Spectre DR. I run the Elcans on all my rifles now, but there is nothing wrong with a good acog with an rds mounted on top or side.
 
pbr streetgang said:
I was running both eotech and aimpoint with the 3x magnifiers for awhile, and then I started to do the math on it. Eotech isn't so bad but after costing out the aimpoint with a decent mount and the magnifier with either the twist or flip mount, your not that far off on price or weight to a good acog or Spectre DR. I run the Elcans on all my rifles now, but there is nothing wrong with a good acog with an rds mounted on top or side.
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I have an ACOG on my AR15 and a 1-4x Trijicon Accupoint on my Swiss.

I feel all my bases are covered, and no pesky batteries to deal with.
 
ACOG's are a pre 9/11 dinosaur.

The glass is okay, but not good and has major parralex issues. BAC has a huge offset issue, and its fine for CQB on paper, but a absolute no-go for any sort of LE or precision Military usage in close quarters.

In the days before the S&B Short Dot, most vasriable power scope we not either rugged enough or not setup for military/LE usage.
Now that variables are both bomb proof and versatile - there is NOT ONE honest reason not to use on.

As for the 12'/ other offset MRD - have you ever actually tried that?
Muscle Memory under stress will pull you down into the primary optic - unless you are preset on that position, and train and train and train.

Regarding the battery paranoia -- everything takes batteries, a battery is no the end of the world.
 
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