Anything to look out for with a new Norinco M305?
- Thread starter Saafire
- Start date
I picked one up a few months back, I fixed a few things on it and now it shoots really good. bang on if you will, ha-ha the main thing was getting the oprod guide lined up and getting the gas system tight. After doing that and a NM spring guide it was well worth the price. All together it only cost me like 40 bucks and was a fun process.
Most are fine but some are lemons. Buy from a reputable store that will allow you to return the rifle if defects appear. Make sure that you understand what the store considers a defect - some will only accept returns if they impair cycling or firing of the rifle. If they will allow you to field strip the rifle in the store, you can do these checks in the store if not, do them at home.
Possible checks:
- Tilt test (see the stickies above). This ensures that the operating rod and piston system cycles without binding.
- Check for loose op. rod guide. When doing the tilt test, see if the op. rod guide wiggles or is tight. It should be tight.
- Check if when manually cycling the action, the op. rod can be pulled out of the track on the side of the rifle. This shouldn't happen.
- Check front sight indexing and barrel timing. The front sight should be in the middle of the mount not moved to the side. A sight all the way to the left or right may indicate that the barrel is mistimed (screwed a fraction of a turn too far in or not far enough). If this is slight and you plan to run a scope it may not be too much of a concern. You can also check the chamber to ensure that the little pointy bit between the scallops to feed the rounds, is aligned.
- With the stripped action, check if the barrel can be unscrewed by hand. Sounds crazy but it happens occasionally.
- Put in an empty mag and see if the bolt holds open when the action is cycled - it should. Also, make sure that you can make the bolt stay open even without the mag, i.e. Make sure the bolt catch works.
Others will chime in with whatever I missed. Almost all of the above can be fixed with a little work and small investment if you miss anything but it's best to avoid these issues if you can.
Cheers
Possible checks:
- Tilt test (see the stickies above). This ensures that the operating rod and piston system cycles without binding.
- Check for loose op. rod guide. When doing the tilt test, see if the op. rod guide wiggles or is tight. It should be tight.
- Check if when manually cycling the action, the op. rod can be pulled out of the track on the side of the rifle. This shouldn't happen.
- Check front sight indexing and barrel timing. The front sight should be in the middle of the mount not moved to the side. A sight all the way to the left or right may indicate that the barrel is mistimed (screwed a fraction of a turn too far in or not far enough). If this is slight and you plan to run a scope it may not be too much of a concern. You can also check the chamber to ensure that the little pointy bit between the scallops to feed the rounds, is aligned.
- With the stripped action, check if the barrel can be unscrewed by hand. Sounds crazy but it happens occasionally.
- Put in an empty mag and see if the bolt holds open when the action is cycled - it should. Also, make sure that you can make the bolt stay open even without the mag, i.e. Make sure the bolt catch works.
Others will chime in with whatever I missed. Almost all of the above can be fixed with a little work and small investment if you miss anything but it's best to avoid these issues if you can.
Cheers
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- anywhere but here
OP, you did go through the stickies... right?
Lot of very detailed, thorough, soporific (if you try and digest it all at once) info there!
Lot of very detailed, thorough, soporific (if you try and digest it all at once) info there!
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notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
The only thing that I have found that's not "fixable" in the current crop of shorties is an out of spec bolt/receiver combo.....
It's an easy to find issue that is not an easy fix. Pull the trigger group off the rifle, with the barrelled action in, or out, of the stock, slowly pull back on the op-rod. If the bolt drops below the safety bridge you have a rifle that is a boat anchor. Unless you like a every shot BHO rifle......
In the ones I have seen, sometimes a different bolt does not solve the issue as it is the receiver bolt ways that are out of spec....
You will likely also find the op-rod guide will need to be glued, the barrel indexing will likely be out-of spec and the rear sight will be crap. The factory FH will also be a bit out of square.....
I've had a few rifles on the bench recently that looked like they were 12+ degrees out of index, tuned out the FH was actually 50% of the problem!
At a minimum, I would recommend planning on spending $$ on a guide rod, a FH and a rear sight unless you plan on shooting a scoped rifle.
A lot of folks believe that if the indexing is off, there is no point in fixing it if you're going to scope it. I very humbly disagree.
The barrel index is the very core of the rifle. If the index is off, then you are not maximizing the potential of the rifle.
Cheers!
It's an easy to find issue that is not an easy fix. Pull the trigger group off the rifle, with the barrelled action in, or out, of the stock, slowly pull back on the op-rod. If the bolt drops below the safety bridge you have a rifle that is a boat anchor. Unless you like a every shot BHO rifle......
In the ones I have seen, sometimes a different bolt does not solve the issue as it is the receiver bolt ways that are out of spec....
You will likely also find the op-rod guide will need to be glued, the barrel indexing will likely be out-of spec and the rear sight will be crap. The factory FH will also be a bit out of square.....
I've had a few rifles on the bench recently that looked like they were 12+ degrees out of index, tuned out the FH was actually 50% of the problem!
At a minimum, I would recommend planning on spending $$ on a guide rod, a FH and a rear sight unless you plan on shooting a scoped rifle.
A lot of folks believe that if the indexing is off, there is no point in fixing it if you're going to scope it. I very humbly disagree.
The barrel index is the very core of the rifle. If the index is off, then you are not maximizing the potential of the rifle.
Cheers!
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
As a previous poster noted it is a Flash Hider, also called a Flash Arrestor or in some cases a Muzzle Brake. All 3 are accurate descriptions of "the bit at the end of the muzzle", but the box stock Nork muzzle device will be a Flash Hider.
Yes, indexing refers to 12 o'clock Top Dead Centre. USGI rack grade spec was with-in 3 degrees, NM spec was with-in .5% plus or minus. 3 degrees is obvious to the naked eye when looking through the rear sight.
Cheers!
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Read the stickies above and as already listed here thus far in this thread, there can be rifles with one or more issues out of box.
This doesn't mean it will not fire everytime the trigger is squeezed or will throw 12gaCylinder bore, buck shot style groups at 100meters .
Most of these rifles are very reliable out of the box as was mine with only the over-indexing issue, and lose op-rod guide. Most of the issues notsorichguy listed are not overly hard to put right yourself or in an M14 clinic by Tactical Teacher,... but again most rifles will still function with them.
The things that I would be most concerned about and are damn hard or impossible for a novice to verify especially in the store on someones new rifle are these, (1) an improperly hardened and/or heat treated bolt that could mushroom into a dangerous head space condition after a few hundred rounds, or (2) a rifle with an out of spec bolt and/or receiver lug's so as the bolt only bear's fully on one side. I saw a new shorty( CanadaAmmo Socom18) with this issue but IIRC the vendor corrected it for the owner. The soft bolt you'll only find out later not sooner so an original headspace check would be ideal and a recheck at say 400 rounds so as to show if this condition is present, but the one side bolt lug bearing issue is an unacceptable condition right away.
These 2 issues are most concerning to me for safety concerns, but are very uncommon I believe in say 99.97%, and the other typical issues most complaint's are about range from only the superficial to merely annoying, with no safety concerns, so really they are non-issues on a 400 dollar rifle that you now are aware of before you buy and have the support of an M14 community here to correct if you chose to accept this mission.
This tape will self-destruct in 10,..9,..8.......
This doesn't mean it will not fire everytime the trigger is squeezed or will throw 12gaCylinder bore, buck shot style groups at 100meters .
Most of these rifles are very reliable out of the box as was mine with only the over-indexing issue, and lose op-rod guide. Most of the issues notsorichguy listed are not overly hard to put right yourself or in an M14 clinic by Tactical Teacher,... but again most rifles will still function with them.
The things that I would be most concerned about and are damn hard or impossible for a novice to verify especially in the store on someones new rifle are these, (1) an improperly hardened and/or heat treated bolt that could mushroom into a dangerous head space condition after a few hundred rounds, or (2) a rifle with an out of spec bolt and/or receiver lug's so as the bolt only bear's fully on one side. I saw a new shorty( CanadaAmmo Socom18) with this issue but IIRC the vendor corrected it for the owner. The soft bolt you'll only find out later not sooner so an original headspace check would be ideal and a recheck at say 400 rounds so as to show if this condition is present, but the one side bolt lug bearing issue is an unacceptable condition right away.
These 2 issues are most concerning to me for safety concerns, but are very uncommon I believe in say 99.97%, and the other typical issues most complaint's are about range from only the superficial to merely annoying, with no safety concerns, so really they are non-issues on a 400 dollar rifle that you now are aware of before you buy and have the support of an M14 community here to correct if you chose to accept this mission.
This tape will self-destruct in 10,..9,..8.......
- Location
- The Orion Arm
Got my shorty from SFRC 4 or so years ago. Not a single issue with it (to my immense surprise and joy). Changed out the op rod, spring, and rear sight of course, but has been reliable and dead nuts accurate.
Maybe the Norc guys on the line that day were new and wanted to make a good impression on the bosses by.....you know.....doing a good job?
M305 18.5" version here- while trying the tilt test, I noticed the concave side of the oprod is not clearing the barrel right under the chamber. I've been slowly filing away at that concave surface, but it's still binding every time it comes back. I notice also the piston is not passing the tilt test either- I've cleaned the cylinder and piston, it's dry, but the piston is still hanging up. There's some suction there when I pull the piston out.
This is brand new in box, unfired. Anyone else with this?
This is brand new in box, unfired. Anyone else with this?
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
If you re-index the barrel the op-rod binding will likely go away..... If not your op-rod is ever so slightly bent and could probably use a bit of a tweak.
A tight piston to cylinder fit is not an issue, unless you are working on the last 1/2" of group size reduction. It is also a sign that your gas lock is too tight. Again not really an issue for function, but it will open up your groups.
Buy a used one that has been through a clinic that is defect free.
I have one with a crooked front sight base/flash hider. I have the part but my local smith won't touch the work. The tool to remove the castle nut is elusive.
4 years later - I have not shot it and it remains an unfinished project.
I have one with a crooked front sight base/flash hider. I have the part but my local smith won't touch the work. The tool to remove the castle nut is elusive.
4 years later - I have not shot it and it remains an unfinished project.
Lowestform
Regular
- Location
- North of Edmonton
I've used a small punch and hammer to remove the castle nut before. It took a decent beating before it came loose. Also make sure the set screw is removed first.
Ryan112929
Member
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Mine had a whole slough of problems that i didnt even know to look for. I bought mine knowing nothing about the rifle other than that it looked cool... Lol. Barrel was over indexed, "dangerous" headspace, crooked flash hider... I love this rifle and its tuned up and perfect now but i was shocked that something that far out of spec could be sold! That being said, I'd buy one again I'm just a lot better educated on what to look for now that I've lurking around this site for a while.
