Apc223 over X95

[Spuhalsky]

Fak, you guys. I don't care what you think is close. That wasn't the question or concern, it was an opinion. I asked if there are noticeable advantages and parts availability (or lack there of) to justify making the move. I appreciate your comment on the weight of it, as that is a large concern for running / gunning 3gun. I've just been looking for something with better ergos and trigger to improve my times but don't want to risk failures as the X95 has proven itself. Unfortunately I don't have the funds to buy both, or all 3. I would have to sell my X95 to cover the cost of either.

I have not had the opportunity to fondle an APC 223 NR. I've only shot the 10.4" version and I must say I loved it, but add another 8" and it probably isnt so nimble. Still have yet to see a Bren 2 in the wild, or at local retailers but it seems like everyone is pointing that way these days. I love my X95, but the ergos and inability to slam a mag home on a closed bolt really add to times on some stages.

 

[Spuhalsky]

I know you’re comparing the APC, but have you considered the Bren 2 from shield Rifleworks? They got it converted to a NR that’s 7lbs which is quite impressive. I used to have an ATRS modern sporter that I built out for a lightweight NR which ended up at about 6.5lbs

Considering the bren 2 from shield is a little cheaper than an APC and is very comparable, maybe it’s a third option to consider.

Personally I was very close to buying a NR APC until I held one. Don’t get me wrong, it’s very nice but I just couldn’t justify it. Didn’t have the same reaction with the Bren 2

That Bren 2 from shield is tweaking the interest. Thanks for pointing out the weight reduction.

 

[r34skyline]

Out of curiousity why not the Bren 2?

 

[mareshow]

APC is more accurate than the Bren 2, but arguing accuracy in semi autos is a bit redundant IMO as long as its 2 MOA or under I believe thats very fair accuracy wise

I would love a Bren 2 NR as well but haven't found any yet. I may get an R version just for the short barrel. It is definitely much lighter, but both are still lighter than the R18.

Bullpup is bullpup I recommend watching garand thumbs Vid on the X95, he's very fair with it. He also reviewed the APC a few years ago, his arguments stand IMO

One thing nice about the APC is if you want other calibers the platform is nearly identical. 308, 300 blk, 9mm and others are the same. Which is very nice if you want to cross train say in 9mm cause it's cheaper. I'm hoping they come out with a 22 LR training version ( VERY unlikely IMO)

Nice guns cost money. If its a question of dollars and thats the only thing holding you back I'd recommend waiting and getting an APC (there's also one on the EE right now for $4300)

My only gripe with the APC is why didn't they chrome line the barrel? in a gun of this caliber that would have made sense.

 

[r34skyline]

APC is more accurate than the Bren 2, but arguing accuracy in semi autos is a bit redundant IMO as long as its 2 MOA or under I believe thats very fair accuracy wise

I would love a Bren 2 NR as well but haven't found any yet. I may get an R version just for the short barrel. It is definitely much lighter, but both are still lighter than the R18.

Bullpup is bullpup I recommend watching garand thumbs Vid on the X95, he's very fair with it. He also reviewed the APC a few years ago, his arguments stand IMO

One thing nice about the APC is if you want other calibers the platform is nearly identical. 308, 300 blk, 9mm and others are the same. Which is very nice if you want to cross train say in 9mm cause it's cheaper. I'm hoping they come out with a 22 LR training version ( VERY unlikely IMO)

Nice guns cost money. If its a question of dollars and thats the only thing holding you back I'd recommend waiting and getting an APC (there's also one on the EE right now for $4300)

My only gripe with the APC is why didn't they chrome line the barrel? in a gun of this caliber that would have made sense.

The swiss are quite obsessive with accuracy, my only estimation is they chose an alternative surface treatment to chrome lining to preserve accuracy

 

[I Dont Care About You]

The X95 can be found for 2499. Your comparing a fully upgraded X95 to a basic APC with no upgrades and still paying almost $1000.00 more for the APC. Not sure I follow your "price is close" logic.

Also, if you wanted to be alittle more fair in the comparision, you should have compared prices from the same retailer. The RDSC APC price is listed at $5139.99. (currently in stock)

I thought the same thing, but as I got insulted for my comment, I just chose to not reply to it.

For the difference between a fully upgraded X95 to the APC, one could nearly buy a WK180C. The $1000 - $1300 price difference is not exactly "close" IMO. But that's just like my opinion ... man.

 

[veezeey]

I have both a Tavor TAR21, with both trigger upgrades, and an APC223, and a GHM9-g, all in NR. Although I’m not getting rid of the Tavor I prefer the APC. Everything about it oozes extreme quality. It also mostly feels like an AR, to me anyway. The Tavor is cool and fun and I love it but I go to the APC most of the time. I haven’t had an opportunity to see a Bren 2 but I know if I did I’d probably like it as well. Can’t really go wrong with any of these IMO.

 

[beltfed]

Would a APC223 NR be worth the money over say a X95 if a fella didn’t mind bullpups but preferred traditional style rifles?

The attributes of both make this an apples and oranges comparison.

So much so, it is hardly a surprise this thread has turned into a bun fight.

I'd go so far as to say comparing the APC NR with an R18 with a Siberian/WK-180 are different too. All have non-restricted barrel lengths, in .223/5.56, ergos and length about the same. The operating systems are oh-so close to being the 'same'. All are within a pound or so in weight respectively, but I'd class them as DMR, Service Rifle, Carbine (only insofar as the 18.5" barrel length is the minimum length for maintaining non-restricted status).

You could argue the APC bridges the gap between DMR and Service Rifle, and the X95 / Tavor , Siberian and WK-180s bridge the gap at Service Rifle & Carbine, but makes a very poor DMR.
The R18 is solidly in the Service Rifle category in my opinion.

 

[rajczak_kashka]

I'm having this debate myself. Currently own a custom X95. With the added trigger upgrades, grip, buttpad the cost is getting very close to an APC 223. My question is, how much benefit does the B&T add, and how accessible are parts?

The X95 is proven, I have run thousands of rounds and used it in over a dozen 3gun matches. Other than the odd magazine failure (feed lips and weak springs) it has run 100% of the time.

I have owned X95’s and currently own several APC’s. X95 is well made, accurate and very reliable. APC is extremely well made and of high quality you’d expect with “Swiss made”. Accuracy and reliability as would be expected at this price point. If ya got the extra cash...buy the APC. B&T are the industry leader for a reason and parts are relatively plenty here at this time.