AR-10 accuracy: Mixing barrel & bolt manufacturers
- Thread starter Saiga Genesis
- Start date
Those chatter marks willl most likely almost not be on just one barrel they sent out. Can tell you that right now. There’s bound to be more. Seen a few new rugers where I could see chatter marks from the muzzle end without a bore scope.
DaveMachine
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- That one place with a cowboy complex
I'll try to get some pictures of the replacement barrel.
RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
I feel your pain. I got a 18.6" Faxon Big Gunner that CTCS brought in. Best I got it to shoot is 1.2 MOA 5 group with 185 grain Berger Hunting VLD. I suspect the group was a fluke, I'm expecting about 2 MOA 10 round group at best. Here's a photo of today's results:
I will be trying different bullets, I'm thinking the VLDs don't like the jump at mag length, but I'm weary of wasting more components on this barrel. It's nice and light, great fit and finish, but for hunting I wouldn't trust it past 200 yards at the moment.
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RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
Next will be bullets with tangent and hybrid ogives. I will try Berger Juggernauts for target purposes and Nosler Accubonds for hunting. I hope those will be sub MOA, even if just.
RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
Promising groups. Have you had the chance of testing with 5 and 10 round groups at 200 and 300 yards? BSF seems to be the best high end option right now in terms of price and availability on the Canadian market. I'll be putting in more work on the Faxon before I move to something higher end like that.
Holy moly, gentlemen, you guys are champions! Thanks for all the insightful information!
Thanks to DaveMachine, Tachead, RangerPark and Beater I'm gonna shift my attention to the Criterion or Maple Ridge barrels. The SPR barrel from MR (2.5lb) might be what I go for at this point, given that I am trying to build a lightweight plinker, after all. The pencil barrel is also very appealing for the weight (1lb 15oz), but group size under heat concerns me. However, the term "plinker" doesn't really imply concern for group size to begin with, so I'm a bit torn on what I want. Can't say I'd be too pleased with a barrel that has its groups open up to 4moa if I'm trying to hit some small steel plate off-hand at 3-400yards or so. What do you guys figure?
Mikey01, the BSF barrels look really appealing, but not quite in the budget right now.
45C, I'll have to check out those barrels you talked about, too.
As for the bolt, sounds like the Toolcraft is a great way to go. Might go Titanium, or nickel boron treated. The MR barrels have nickel boron treated chambers, if I remember correctly, so that would be nice.
Thanks for the heads-up on the headspace guages, too, Tachead.
Thanks to DaveMachine, Tachead, RangerPark and Beater I'm gonna shift my attention to the Criterion or Maple Ridge barrels. The SPR barrel from MR (2.5lb) might be what I go for at this point, given that I am trying to build a lightweight plinker, after all. The pencil barrel is also very appealing for the weight (1lb 15oz), but group size under heat concerns me. However, the term "plinker" doesn't really imply concern for group size to begin with, so I'm a bit torn on what I want. Can't say I'd be too pleased with a barrel that has its groups open up to 4moa if I'm trying to hit some small steel plate off-hand at 3-400yards or so. What do you guys figure?
Mikey01, the BSF barrels look really appealing, but not quite in the budget right now.
45C, I'll have to check out those barrels you talked about, too.
As for the bolt, sounds like the Toolcraft is a great way to go. Might go Titanium, or nickel boron treated. The MR barrels have nickel boron treated chambers, if I remember correctly, so that would be nice.
Thanks for the heads-up on the headspace guages, too, Tachead.
RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
I'm at a point where I'm questioning some things myself. I did more testing with the Faxon barrel today, this time with Berger Juggernauts, it still won't shoot. That 1.2 MOA group was just under 2.0 MOA today, it opened up with crazy vertical when shooting 5 shots in under 30 seconds, 3+ MOA. I reached out to CTCS about the Faxon barrel but I'm not sure what they can do as there's no accuracy guarantee from Faxon. One can only wonder at what point a poorly shooting barrel can be considered defective, I'm about to find out. I'll likely sell the barrel on the EE with full disclosure, it's just fine for hunting under 200 yards, but so is a $500 scoped Remington 783. I didn't sink that much money in a Stag 10 build to settle for that kind of accuracy.
So I'm already looking at alternatives. I have some thoughts on lightweight barrels. The Faxon was nice and light at 2 lbs 2.8 oz. Even with this, I weighed in my Stag 10 build at 10 lbs 6.5 oz with a 3-9 VX-R scope. There's nothing excessively heavy in this build, Stag 10 Lev2 with Magpul MOE-SL stock, grip, MBUS, Burris PEPR QD mount and the VX-R. So was there much of a point going with a lightweight barrel? Is the potential loss of accuracy, especially with multiple shot strings, worth saving 1 pound? Most regular weight barrels are around 3 lbs. So I'm looking at about 10.5 lbs with a lightweight barrel and 11.5 lbs with a regular one. It's a pig of a rifle either way.
One thing I must say is the Stag doesn't feel this heavy because it points so well. Even with the original barrel I found it was a pleasure to handle.
So what's next? I'm probably going to go for a regular weight barrel at around 3 lbs. I just don't think the weight savings of a pencil barrel are worth it when the rest of the rifle is just so heavy. Or I might keep the Faxon for this hunting season. Or I might sell the whole thing and move on.
I certainly know where you're coming from with that. I wouldn't want to live with those kind of numbers either.
Jeez, I looked at the Lev 2 set-up a bit and like you said, it's not heavy when you look at the pieces one-by-one.
On that note, I did some math to see if you could shave some weight off of it, so here are some examples:
6.8oz vseven magnesium hyperlight (+2oz barrel nut)
Compared to:
12.4oz lev 2 handguard
12oz titanium brownells bolt
Compared to:
1lb 2.4oz brownells bcg nitride (probably similar to the stag-10 bcg)
Aero lightweight cantilever
3.2oz
Compared to vortex cantilever (for instance)
6.7oz
Weight savings:
.225lb+.4lb+ .21875lb= .844lb
Depending on what you have, you could save that extra pound, but at a cost. Literally. Lol. Might not be worth it depending on how badly you want to cut that pound or more. Who wants to buy a complete rifle only to replace so much of it?
And I know that optic is quite light, so that's not a concern. Btw, how do you like the 3-9x VX-R? It was one of my top choices for this build. I'm sorta set on getting the 3-9x Accupoint at this point, though.
Good to hear that the rifle handled well as is. Gives me confidence in getting a slightly heavier barrel too!
I hope it all works out for you.
Jeez, I looked at the Lev 2 set-up a bit and like you said, it's not heavy when you look at the pieces one-by-one.
On that note, I did some math to see if you could shave some weight off of it, so here are some examples:
6.8oz vseven magnesium hyperlight (+2oz barrel nut)
Compared to:
12.4oz lev 2 handguard
12oz titanium brownells bolt
Compared to:
1lb 2.4oz brownells bcg nitride (probably similar to the stag-10 bcg)
Aero lightweight cantilever
3.2oz
Compared to vortex cantilever (for instance)
6.7oz
Weight savings:
.225lb+.4lb+ .21875lb= .844lb
Depending on what you have, you could save that extra pound, but at a cost. Literally. Lol. Might not be worth it depending on how badly you want to cut that pound or more. Who wants to buy a complete rifle only to replace so much of it?
And I know that optic is quite light, so that's not a concern. Btw, how do you like the 3-9x VX-R? It was one of my top choices for this build. I'm sorta set on getting the 3-9x Accupoint at this point, though.
Good to hear that the rifle handled well as is. Gives me confidence in getting a slightly heavier barrel too!
I hope it all works out for you.
Non-phixion
CGN frequent flyer
Why pay through the teeth at RDSC for that BCG when you can order that Low mass BCG from brownells on a 10% off day and save some big time money.
RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
Not me! Not me! Meanwhile the sickness is setting in and I'm slowly upgrading everything on the rifle. Had the original barrel properly fed rounds without chewing the tips off I wouldn't be in this deep. But here I am, might as well make the most of it.
The VX-R are a great line of scopes. I have the 1.5-5, 2-7 and 3-9 on various rifles. They're all great glass that are also light enough. They all have the same daylight visible firedot which is amazing, especially when hunting in the shade or heavy cover. They all have the same drawback of no adjustable parallax and even though they're reasonable on weight, they're all on the large side, especially compared to the VX-3i offerings.
All that being said the only reason I'm using the 3-9 VX-R on the Stag 10 is because my 3-18 VX-6HD is with Korth as the in reticle level wasn't working properly. At this point, what's another 6 oz right?
RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
I guess it all depends on when you need it. Sometimes I don't mind paying extra if it means it's in stock and in my hands the same week. Everyone will pay for convenience at times.
Non-phixion
CGN frequent flyer
DaveMachine
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- That one place with a cowboy complex
http://imgur.com/a/453I8ph
Some results from this afternoon. The three rounds up top are Hirtenberger surplus, the bottom five are Mexican match - Hirtenberger with a 150gr Accubond. I'm pretty happy with those results.
Some results from this afternoon. The three rounds up top are Hirtenberger surplus, the bottom five are Mexican match - Hirtenberger with a 150gr Accubond. I'm pretty happy with those results.
Oh, wow. How was the barrel doing that? Nasty!
But I get your situation. And if you don't want your rifle to be too focussed on weight savings anyway, "what's another 6oz?" is a reasonable thing to say, especially if it's mainly a range gun or going to be used in a more sedentary way, or if it just doesn't bother you.
I went on a woods walk with a buddy a couple months back, I brought my 11lb SKS and he brought his Sub-2000. I was a bit envious of the feather he had slung over his back.
So I'm trying to go all-out, within budget, with this build.Thanks for your opinion on the VX•R scopes!
I think I'll pull the trigger on a barrel sooner than later, then the bolt down the road. Probably gonna make it a Maple Ridge barrel and titanium Brownells bcg.
Holy! It'd take that group, sans the flier! That's a little less than an inch, center to center, right? And is that with your replacement Faxon barrel or your Criterion? What barrel profile?
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