AR-15 vs. M16

Rohann

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Okay, this may sound stupid, but what is the difference? I know now that the M16 is the military adopted version of Colt's model, and the AR-15 is the civillian legal version, but what about back in Vietnam and the early '90s? In the book Marine Sniper (or Silent Warrior, can't remember which), a pilot, a CIA agent and two South 'Nam scouts get shot down. It describes the scouts doing a Recon by Fire ("hosing down the area) with their AR-15's, but how would this be possible with semi-automatics? Also, the Delta operators in the Somalia operation used CAR-15's. What's the difference???

-Rohann
 
Basically, the M16 and variants is selective fire, and the commercial AR-15 isn't.

They're not CAR-15's, they're M4's. Selective fire carbine versions of the M16 family.
 
I'm sure someone who has memorized more info than I will chime in but I believe that the CAR 15 is the designation for the shorter bbl M16. The Car15 IIRC has a 10.5" barrel with the 5" flash hider/sound moderator. My info could be off here. it is possible that the author has his facts mixed up.

CF
 
The first AR-15 rifles made were selective fire. The first ones to go to Viet Nam were AR-15s. After formal adoption and standardization, the rifle became known as the M-16. Colt did produce the semi-automatic AR-15 for the civilian market. So, there were both semi-auto and selective AR-15s. In the 45 or so years since these rifles were first introduced there have been many different versions manufactured.
 
When the AR-15 hit the military market you had the choice of ordering it either in semi-auto only or semi/full-auto. The US Air Force ordered theirs in semi-auto only. The US Air Force used the AR-15 till about the late 80's, early 90's before it was replaced with the M-16A2.
 
Ok,

If you really want the definitive history of the AR-15 and variants, get or borrow a copy of "The Black Rifle."

It'll make things clear as mud.

There's been so many different variants and mods over the years that there's no good way to describe them all.

Chances are, if there's something that can be done to an AR, it has been done.

I've held semi-auto AR's.

I've held Full Auto AR's.

I've held a Belt Fed AR. (which was also full auto and suppressed)

These were NOT M-16's.

I've held M-16's, from vietnam era ones, up to new C-7's (and newer stuff)

There's just so many different variants, and now with so many more manufacturers, there's so many options that can be added, it almost boggles the mind.

Anyhow, get The Black Rifle, or borrow it, or look up some of the back issues of Small Arms Review, there's some pretty good stuff in them.

NS
 
OK. This will be a brief, and hopefully, clear genesis of the AR-15/M16 family.

The first AR-15 (AR = Armalite Rifle) was a select-fire assault rifle manufactured by Armalite, Inc. They had the 3-prong flash suppressor, green plastic furniture, chrome-plated bolt assemblies, and no forward-assist. Because Armalite was not able to do volume production of the rifle, Colt's Firearms became the licensed producer of the rifle.

Because the original AR-15 was select fire, Colt's offered a semi-auto only version called the Colt Sporter or SP1. These rifles were also called AR-15's. The first civilian-legal AR-15 Sporters became available in 1964. They had modified chrome-plated bolts, 3-prong suppressors, black furniture, and no forward assist. The bottom of the bolt carrier, hammer, disconnector, trigger, and selector were redesigned for semi-auto fire. To keep an M16 upper from being fitted to an AR-15 lower, Colt adopted a two-headed screw to replace the front push-pin of the M16 lower. Colt produced rifles retain this feature to this day. All other commercial AR-15 semi-automatic rifles and carbines have reverted to the front and rear captive push-pin configuration.

The American Department of Defense adopted the select-fire AR-15 as the M16. These rifles had 3-prong suppressors, black plastic furniture, and no forward assist. The war in Vietnam heated up and improvements were made to the design.

A specialized, short version of the standard M16 rifle was designed. It was called the CAR-15 and used a shortened, sliding rifle butt stock, modified triangular handguards, and a special "sound and flash" suppressor on its 10-inch barrel. The CAR-15 (Colt Automatic Rifle) was redesigned into the XM177 5.56 NATO submachine gun. The improved XM177 uses an improved sliding butt stock (similar to today's M4 carbine) and redesigned tubular handguards. The barrel remains at 10-inches and it does not have a forward assist. The XM177E1 soon follows the XM177 on the production line; the only difference is the barrel grows to 11.5 inches to improve reliability.

In the 1967-1968 period, the M16 is modified to the M16E1 (later M16A1). The major recognition points are a closed ("bird cage") flash suppressor and forward assist mechanism for the bolt. A 30-round magazine is also introduced that eventually replaces the standard 20-round.

The XM177E2 submachine gun is also introduced at the same time. The 'E2 retains the 11.5-inch barrel but adds the forward assist feature of the M16E1.

The Colt AR-15 undergoes several modifications during the late 1970's that make it different from its military cousins. Modifications: (1) trigger and hammer pins are increased in size so that the smaller pins used in earlier AR-15's and M16's will not work, (2) the 3-prong flash suppressor is replaced by the closed suppressor, (3) the bolt carrier and uppre receiver are modified to the M16A1 standard with the forward assist function, and (4) the underside cutout on the bottom of the bolt carrier is deepend until the underhang is completely eliminated.

In 1982, the USMC adopts the product-improved M16A2 rifle. This rifle introduces the symetrical round handguards, flash suppressor/compensator, heavier 1 in 7 twist barrel, fired case deflector (to accomodate left hand shooters), and 3-round burst feature (replaces the full-auto). Shortly after, Colt's releases the AR-15A2 that has the same features as the M16A2, except for the 3-round burst feature.

Because special operations forces need an equivalent to the XM177-series weapons that are now well-worn, the M16A2 is redesigned into the M4-series 5.56 NATO Carbine. The M4 uses an improved telescoping stock of the XM177, it uses the 'A2 rear sight, case defelector, shortened/round handguards, and a 14.5-inch 1 in 7 twist barrel, contoured for a M203 grenade launcher attachment, and the flash suppressor/compensator of the 'A2 rifle.

Beginning in the 1970's and continuing, other manufacturers began making lower receivers so that surplus military parts could be reutilized. These new "AR-15's" had all the features of the military versions and eliminated the peculiar features of the Colt products. Frist to go was the Colt-specific two headed screw; the new receivers reverted to the front push-pin. The Colt oversize trigger and hammer pins were not adopted, meaning standard military pins could be used. Military improvements to the lower receiver, reinforced front push-pin lugs, beefed-up rear receiver about buffer tube, and raised guard around the magazine release were added. Colt was slow to add these features until the AR-15A2 came on the market.

During the late 1980's and 1990's the AR-series of rifles offered and variants explodes into the bewildering array that we see today. It seems like even more variations are unveiled every few months.

And that's the rest of the story.
 
MasterGunner:

Thanks for clearing up the AR Moniker "Armalite Rifle". I often hear of people saying that AR stood for Assault Rifle and I ended up frustrated trying to clear the record.

Cheers,
Barney
 
There has been a lot of misinformation spread regarding the AR-15, and a lot of it is repeated in this thread.

AR does not stand for "Armalite Rifle", it simply stands for "ARmalite". How else can you explain the AR-17, a shotgun?

CAR-15 does not indicate a carbine AR-15, it indicates an AR-15 developed by Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Co. Several guns that were designated CAR-15 had longer and/or heavier barrels than standard, or were belt-fed.

Semi-auto AR-15s for the US Air Force? Not bloody likely. But points for originality, since I have never heard that one before.

The forward assist was not added as a response to problems, it was added based on policy. The very first AR-15s issued to the US Army in 1964 all had forward assists, since the army insisted that all rifles had to have a closure mechanism.

Finally, to answer the original question, there is no difference between an AR-15 and the M16, because the M16 IS an AR-15. When the US DoD buys commerically available equipment from a private manufacturer, they apply their own equipment nomenclature to it. Hence, when they buy commercially available AR-15s from Colt, in a specific configuration, they ask Colt to stamp them M16 because that is what they call them internally, but they are still AR-15s. The idea that AR-15s are semi auto while M16s are full auto is just not true.
 
BattleRife got it right. His last paragraph is the most accurate answer to one of the most asked Black Rifle questions.

BattleRife said:
Finally, to answer the original question, there is no difference between an AR-15 and the M16, because the M16 IS an AR-15. When the US DoD buys commerically available equipment from a private manufacturer, they apply their own equipment nomenclature to it. Hence, when they buy commercially available AR-15s from Colt, in a specific configuration, they ask Colt to stamp them M16 because that is what they call them internally, but they are still AR-15s. The idea that AR-15s are semi auto while M16s are full auto is just not true.

No different then when the Beretta 92F is referred to as an M9 by the US Military.
 
Thanks for the posts guys, that really clears things up. That's the main thing I was confused about: I always thought the AR-15 was always semi-auto, and so it didn't make sense to me when I read about the pilots using AR-15's in Marine Sniper. Thanks!

One more question: The 1st SF during the operation in Somalia used carbines designated as CAR-15's, now clear to me that they are M4's; were they called CAR-15's because they weren't officially adopted by the U.S. DoD yet?

-Rohann
 
Rohann,

From The Black Rifle II:

"...after which a procurement contract, no. DAAA21-85-C-0192 was signed on june 12 1985. Under terms of this contract, Colt was to furnish the US Government with 40 XM4 Carbines for test and evaluation by February 7, 1986. ....."

These were the first M-4's. Further development was delayed for several years after that, but things carried on.

If you want all the answers to your AR-15/M-16/M-4/C-7 questions, get copies of The Black Rifle and The Black Rifle II. Several hundred pages of well written information.

NS
 
Rohann said:
One more question: The 1st SF during the operation in Somalia used carbines designated as CAR-15's, now clear to me that they are M4's; were they called CAR-15's because they weren't officially adopted by the U.S. DoD yet?

-Rohann

This is correct, we had some CAR-15s which at that time were M16s with collapseable stocks, different flash suppressor, FA, cannot recall if they had brass deflectors or not.
 
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