AR magazine insight

sniper_26_99

sniper_26_99

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When the word pinned to 5 rounds is that literally speaking?

I ask the question because the 20 round mag that came with my colt has a pinned mag to 5 rounds but when I opened it up for maintenance it turns out its only a metal gauge in there that stops the follower at 5 rounds.

If this is also true to 30/5 mags where would someone buy these lances to insert in the mags?

I ask the question because if this is something we can do I would like to start a collection of different types and models of mags out there but we are very limited in Canada and the states doesn't really offer AR 5 round mags so if you want something you will need to pin it yourself.

Unless there is a legal issue with that but I wouldn't see why since you can mail order 10 round pistol mags without any problems.

Witch brings me to another mag debate.............. What makes a LAR15 mag a LAR15 mag? Is it just the marking on the mag? Say you pinned a 30 round mag to 10rounds and wrote LAR15 on the mag does that make it a LAR15 mag?

why does the law tolerate a mag marked lar to be 10 rounds and not the other?

If it were only to have a 10 round mag for my AR and lar15 mags being in the range or 30$ to 40$ cad Its probably not worth the effort to buy 10$ mags in the states and mod them anyway.

Thanks for the info
 
For the LAR-15 magazines, it's what the manufacturer has written on the magazine, not what you write on it. What makes it ten and others five? RCMP says so, and that's all there is to it.
 
It turns out the magazines are controlled by name similar to that of the wonderful 12.x lists.

When the C4 Storm hit the market they came with non-name stamped mags. One cool designer decided to cool to now stamp the rifles name on the mag so you don't mix up your C4 mags with your 92's Mags.

During this little adventure of loop holes and legality of 10 rounds in a semi-auto rifle; the RCMP listed a decreed that: because the C4 Storm Mag's had the rifles name on them they now had to be pinned to 5 rounds, but if you happened to put your 92's mag in there it was perfectly legal with the 10 rds as it was the magazines originally designed which created its classification.

Remington trying to introduce 30 rd mags for their 7615 series of pump action .223 Carbines ... but the RCMP would not allow them to use standard 30 rd AR style mags because the magazines were made on the same stamping machine as the actual AR Mags. (they picked up some old AR Mag Machinery, or out sources to an AR Mag Manufacturer to save some dollars).

It was stated at this time by the RCMP that the Magazines, if they wished to use them, would have to be of a different design and different assembly and use different machines to assemble them - once a machine makes 1 AR Mag - every mag built after it is there by an AR Mag.

In Comes Rock River with their LAR - they were able to show to the RCMP that this 'pistol' had it mags made on totally different machinery which had never made a AR Mag before and now it was able to only product LAR Magazine - we with AR's are now blessed with 10 rd mags.

In the law enforcement community a CZ 858 is an AK - there is no difference to a portion of they guys doing patrols.

Every once and a while you will run into a guy who is a gun nut and knows a little bit about firearms and classifications - but those guys in my experiences are few and far between. At least with the gun nuts, they are willing to listen and accept they are not masters on firearms laws and that you the firearms owner may know more about the laws surrounding your specific firearm better than anyone else.

The laws are crazy they way they are written, there is no black and white with them when you really start looking at enforcement - it's all just a world of gray.

Cheers,

Critter
 
Critter81 said:
It turns out the magazines are controlled by name similar to that of the wonderful 12.x lists.

When the C4 Storm hit the market they came with non-name stamped mags. One cool designer decided to cool to now stamp the rifles name on the mag so you don't mix up your C4 mags with your 92's Mags.

During this little adventure of loop holes and legality of 10 rounds in a semi-auto rifle; the RCMP listed a decreed that: because the C4 Storm Mag's had the rifles name on them they now had to be pinned to 5 rounds, but if you happened to put your 92's mag in there it was perfectly legal with the 10 rds as it was the magazines originally designed which created its classification.

Remington trying to introduce 30 rd mags for their 7615 series of pump action .223 Carbines ... but the RCMP would not allow them to use standard 30 rd AR style mags because the magazines were made on the same stamping machine as the actual AR Mags. (they picked up some old AR Mag Machinery, or out sources to an AR Mag Manufacturer to save some dollars).

It was stated at this time by the RCMP that the Magazines, if they wished to use them, would have to be of a different design and different assembly and use different machines to assemble them - once a machine makes 1 AR Mag - every mag built after it is there by an AR Mag.

In Comes Rock River with their LAR - they were able to show to the RCMP that this 'pistol' had it mags made on totally different machinery which had never made a AR Mag before and now it was able to only product LAR Magazine - we with AR's are now blessed with 10 rd mags.

In the law enforcement community a CZ 858 is an AK - there is no difference to a portion of they guys doing patrols.

Every once and a while you will run into a guy who is a gun nut and knows a little bit about firearms and classifications - but those guys in my experiences are few and far between. At least with the gun nuts, they are willing to listen and accept they are not masters on firearms laws and that you the firearms owner may know more about the laws surrounding your specific firearm better than anyone else.

The laws are crazy they way they are written, there is no black and white with them when you really start looking at enforcement - it's all just a world of gray.

Cheers,

Critter
Click to expand...

Interesting "story" but not all that factual. I won't comment on the parts about the Remington, etc. but with respect to the details you stated relating to Rock River your statements are pure fantasy.

First and foremost Rock River had nothing to do with the LAR-15 10 round AR Pistol Magazines other than to permit Questar International to use the LAR-15 trademark/name for the magazines. The entire development and manufacture of the 10 round LAR-15 magazines was done by Questar. Rock River has nothing to do with the process or the manufacture (RRA does not make magazines).

RCMP Tables Section interpret the law (and it's application) until such time as the courts clarify areas of uncertainty or dispute. The magazine laws are very difficult to understand and not easy to interpret. The RCMP ruling on our LAR-15 ten round magazines does an excellent job of outlining what the criteria were and how they were met in order to gain approval for our 10 round AR magazines... read the approval letter carefully.

Some of what you stated in your POST is correct but other areas are not right. You are quite correct that it's not sufficient to simply take a magazine and stamp or engrave "Pistol" on it... RCMP still consider that to be a rifle magazine and limited to 5 rounds.

Mark
 
Questar said:
Interesting "story" but not all that factual. I won't comment on the parts about the Remington, etc. but with respect to the details you stated relating to Rock River your statements are pure fantasy.

First and foremost Rock River had nothing to do with the LAR-15 10 round AR Pistol Magazines other than to permit Questar International to use the LAR-15 trademark/name for the magazines. The entire development and manufacture of the 10 round LAR-15 magazines was done by Questar. Rock River has nothing to do with the process or the manufacture (RRA does not make magazines).

RCMP Tables Section interpret the law (and it's application) until such time as the courts clarify areas of uncertainty or dispute. The magazine laws are very difficult to understand and not easy to interpret. The RCMP ruling on our LAR-15 ten round magazines does an excellent job of outlining what the criteria were and how they were met in order to gain approval for our 10 round AR magazines... read the approval letter carefully.

Some of what you stated in your POST is correct but other areas are not right. You are quite correct that it's not sufficient to simply take a magazine and stamp or engrave "Pistol" on it... RCMP still consider that to be a rifle magazine and limited to 5 rounds.

Mark
Click to expand...

Mark thanks for the correction

I apologize for being so misinformed !!!

I guess this is what happens when you take a free history lesson from the old boys at the range - the lesson is worth what you paid.
 
sniper_26_99 said:
I ask the question because the 20 round mag that came with my colt has a pinned mag to 5 rounds but when I opened it up for maintenance it turns out its only a metal gauge in there that stops the follower at 5 rounds.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking that this mag has not been properly pinned -- it just has the original five round limiter block that 20 round Colt mags did, which is easily removed when you remove the floorplate. For a mag to qualify as pinned I think it has to be a permanent modification. I've got a 20 round mag that's been riveted through the bottom.
 
This is all nice information but it still doesn't answer the question of pinning the mags yourself and if so possible whats the best way to go about doing it?
 
sniper_26_99 said:
This is all nice information but it still doesn't answer the question of pinning the mags yourself and if so possible whats the best way to go about doing it?
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If you're pinning it yourself, in Canada, you have a prohibited device in your hands until such time as you've pinned it. So you can't do that.

If you buy in the states and pin it there and bring it back, Canada is fine with it but you've just violated US export laws when you take the mag out of the country. So you can't do that.

It's possible to buy in the US, pin there, get the import/export paperwork done and then export to Canada. But it isn't cheap or quick.
 
acrashb said:
It's possible to buy in the US, pin there, get the import/export paperwork done and then export to Canada. But it isn't cheap or quick.
Click to expand...

And that is exactly the reason that dealers who sell magazines in Canada charge more than what those magazines sell for in the US... currency exchange makes up only a very small part of the difference between US and Canadian prices.

The vast majority of the difference in price is the result of all the other costs involved in bringing these items to Canada for commercial resale.

Keep that in mind the next time you hear someone ask: How come magazines cost more in Canada than in the US when the dollar is now at PAR?

Mark
 
Questar said:
And that is exactly the reason that dealers who sell magazines in Canada charge more than what those magazines sell for in the US... currency exchange makes up only a very small part of the difference between US and Canadian prices.

The vast majority of the difference in price is the result of all the other costs involved in bringing these items to Canada for commercial resale.

Keep that in mind the next time you hear someone ask: How come magazines cost more in Canada than in the US when the dollar is now at PAR?

Mark
Click to expand...

It probably also has something to do with there being 330 million illegible buyers in the states and 30 here.

What is that less then a hundred dollar law for importing gun parts then? I bet mags aren't included in there.
 
OldRanger said:
It is not prohibited if it is not assembled.
Click to expand...

Intact, un f**ked with mag bodies are.. Or rather have been determinined to in fact be prohib. devices.

Recent BC court case... Guy convicted importing/possession prohibited device. (3 ARmags)

So there :p

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2008/03/p08_0336.htm

In the end it reads...

[34] In any event, I conclude that the magazine shells imported by Mr. Cancade were prohibited devices, being containers from which ammunition may be fed into a firing chamber, and being capable of containing more than five cartridges.

[35] As for the defence submission that Cancade did not intend to possess prohibited devices, I agree as well with the Crown submission that possession of the unaltered device, coupled with an intention to possess it in that form, satisfies the mens rea component of the offence. Ignorance as to whether they are caught by the legislation in their unassembled form is ignorance of the law.

[36] With deference to a thorough and initially attractive argument by able defence counsel, I am nonetheless persuaded by the Crown submissions and the applicable case law that a purposive and reasonable interpretation of the applicable legislation requires convictions on all counts.
 
That court case is troubling. They are assuming that a rivet in the mag body is the only way to limit the mag to 5. I have a few mags, some AR, some M305 that are limited in a manner described by the OP. That is, they have a tab attached to the follower. Nothing was done to the mag body itself. A rivet was placed in the existing hole in the floorplate to prevent dissasembly. Some would argue that the rivet isn't needed since the floorplates have been permanently modified.
 
Border Crossings are different.

If you were to come across some pre-ban mags, what would you do?
1) Call the Police on yourself?
2) Destroy them?
3) Disassemble and have them neutered legal?

Now I was originally talking about a mag pin breaking, but if a sear broke and your semi went FA, I'm guessing you'd disassemble and seek repair as opposed to walking to the gallows.

But hey, it's much easier and fun to purchace proffesionally done mags with no worries of paperwork and border crossings.
 
i was told, to get them into Canada through CBSA they need to be permanently pinned, lanced, or blocked, and in the case of pmags that had an insert..the bases glued shut.

Once in Canada though, a mag can be restricted to 5 (pinned, lanced, blocked) in any configuration so long as you require a tool to remove the restriction.

Under that logic, using any sharp tool to pop off a baseplate if you were to remove a block is considered a tool. Also, you would need a punch and hammer to remove a rivet from the spine of the mag body.

maybe im wrong, but this was coming from someone that had gone through the process of legally importing many types and styles of mags in a number of different pinning/blocking/lancing configurations.

experts...feel free to pick this apart!
 
Has anyone heard anything more on the new Magpul PMAG 5|10|15? (in their 2010 catalog; no ETA). Description reads: "Utilizing the proven PMAG 20 straight body design, the 5/10/15 round PMAG features a capacity-limiting lock plate that can be set by the user to inhibit round capacity. Intended for commercial sporting use only."

If these were 'locked' to 5-rounds, would this meet the requirements? Or, because they are user-configurable (5/10/20 rounds) would this not qualify?
 
Countersunk pop rivets. Why do importers not pin mags with countersunk rivets? Paying double/triple sucks, paying that for mags that don't work properly is insulting.

DSCN0095.jpg

DSCN0093.jpg

PMAGs rivet up perfectly as there is a channel that the follower rides in. The rivet sleeve can block the follower without ever contacting the spring so you get buttery smooth operation. With a countersunk replacement rivet (and a couple spins of a countersink cutter) they drop free like a factory mag.
If someone has a better method I am all ears.
 
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