AR pricing OMG!
- Thread starter M4-OPERATOR
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It's a cost effective way to get into the AR game.
Frozen Snake
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I just found this on the net. Anyone have contacts in Paraguay?
The CQ 5.56mm Type A assault carbine is the only Type CQ variant to be acknowledged of official uses with a regular Armed force, having been purchased in significant quantities by the DECEI (Destacamento Conjunto de Empleo Inmediato "Joint Quick Deployment Detachment") of the Paraguayan Army.[9] A semi-automatic version of this carbine is available on the civilian market for sports shooters in Canada[10] and in Italy.[11
Why do people buy fakepoints? Why do people be "Relox" watches or fake purses/shoes/etc.
I guess some people are happy with shoddily made knock off crap?
I've often been amazed at the number of people that rave about cheap #### the dealers bring in because its so cheap. $99 tokarov clones! YAY!
Whoop-de-do.
Because the paraguayan army is known for.... ummm.... anything.
OK, everybody calm down. The Norinco AR15 is, IMHO, most certainly not "crap" or "garbage". It is a $700 rifle and will perform like most $700 rifles should. It will work, it will group reasonably well, it can be upgraded with accessories and it a great starter AR.
It's comparatively priced with the likes of the Reminton 7400, Ruger Mini-14's, etc.
It's not a KAC, Daniel Defense or Colt AR15 and it's not trying to be. AR15 shooters would be absolutely retarded to not accept the Norinco into the fold as it VASTLY increases the number of AR15 users in Canada and makes the AR15 that much less likely to get banned at some point.
I would choose a different make of AR15 if my life depended on the rifle, but it does not, so as a range AR15 - it would get my thumbs up. I've used them at the range, but don't own one because I have nicer AR's and other black rifles to fill that void, but if I was new to the game - I'd likely buy one and customize it to my tastes.
For that matter, you could buy a $149 blue line lower, drop all the Norinco parts onto it, and half they guys who crap all over the Norinco would unwittingly compliment you on your nice Canadian AR15 - lol.
It's comparatively priced with the likes of the Reminton 7400, Ruger Mini-14's, etc.
It's not a KAC, Daniel Defense or Colt AR15 and it's not trying to be. AR15 shooters would be absolutely retarded to not accept the Norinco into the fold as it VASTLY increases the number of AR15 users in Canada and makes the AR15 that much less likely to get banned at some point.
I would choose a different make of AR15 if my life depended on the rifle, but it does not, so as a range AR15 - it would get my thumbs up. I've used them at the range, but don't own one because I have nicer AR's and other black rifles to fill that void, but if I was new to the game - I'd likely buy one and customize it to my tastes.
For that matter, you could buy a $149 blue line lower, drop all the Norinco parts onto it, and half they guys who crap all over the Norinco would unwittingly compliment you on your nice Canadian AR15 - lol.
Frozen Snake
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LOL Yeah get your point, But at the same time they are going use and abuse them ,so It would be interesting to see how they work out forthe 12500 troops armed with them.
I didn't say norincos were crap... but that fakepoints/etc. are.
My comment was more about the notion that people "rave" about them... a lot of people on this site seem to like raving about anything and everything that's cheap as dirt, mainly as if giving it props because of its cheapness somehow makes it "better".
If you understand that your $700 rifle is not made to any appreciable standards in a country that considers poisoning people an acceptable business practice then you probably wouldn't ask why a rifle made in a country with labor laws, regulations, and quality control costs 3x as much.
If all people can afford is norinco ARs then that's what they should buy... but the people here who go on about how the Norincos are "just as good" as some other AR rifles (which leads to threads like this where people somehow equate the two) are doing a disservice to people who don't know any better.
Incidentally... it has nothing to do with it being norinco. It has to do with the s**tty quality.
I don't know about you, but I can tell the difference between norinco parts and non-norinco parts.
Yes......I laugh when I see this.......but supply and demand.....
LOL... I was just thinking as I read this that Norinco is "just as good", if not better than, some AR's I have had the misfortune of shooting. Such as:
-Every Olympic Arms AR I ever used.
-Bushmaster Carbon 15 (YUCK!!!)
-Anything by Vulcan or Hesse
Apparently the norcs aren't too bad considering some recent posts from many of our more reputable members. I seem to recall a certain OST carbine course where some individuals had their tier 1 carbines failing while the norc kept on ticking. As to the OP: why so much money for domestic versus chicom AR's? Thats a ridiculous question. All manufacturing costs (wages, eco-regs, benefits, unions) are higher in NA than in the PRC. Tolerances will likely be tighter due to higher QC standards in NA on average. In NA odds are your firearm has spent more time in the hands of an inspector of some kind than in the PRC. Of course a chicom gun will be cheaper.
Disclaimer: I don't own either, my only AR at the moment is a .22 so my opinion on the norc is entirely based on the experience of others and not personal fact. I have no dog in this fight.
Disclaimer: I don't own either, my only AR at the moment is a .22 so my opinion on the norc is entirely based on the experience of others and not personal fact. I have no dog in this fight.
Frozen Snake
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So what exactly is the difference between the Norinco and the Us manufacturers parts? How do you tell on that platform and can they not be swapped out for US parts? Or is it the who platform itself non comparable in quality as soon as you see it. I have never handled one so I am curious. I have heard that the Norinco hp9 and the 870 even that the hp9 is a clone, some of the rivets and such are smaller? Just wondering if it is the same with M4 with some of it components.
I can tell too. It is the fit and finish of the parts on the Norks. They are rough, and look crappy, QC wise.
Yes that is true... as hard as it may be to believe their are crappier rifles than norincos too.
Of course, that is a lot like saying hey this Gremlin is way better than that Lada!
Sometimes when it comes to Norinco guns, they are built in many different factories. Some are junk, some are functional but with crude fit and finish, some are ok. The problem is that the tolerances can be all over the place, some will accept a/m parts and others wont. That is one of the problems with Norinco stuff...its inconsistent.
When you pay more top level guns you are supposively paying more for "consistency", additional qc types checks and in some cases fit and finish although with some guns this still is not the case.
The Norinco AR is a nice entry level gun for some people. Beyond that would depend alot on the quality of the gun you have in your hand at the time.
This...
Some of the norinco parts *might* be interchangeable with a US made AR. Some may not... that will vary from rifle to rifle. And that's the point, their QC is crap and their attention to detail is crap.
It doesn't take much effort to make a rifle that will cycle. In fact, the looser the tolerances the better. After all, tight match-grade IPSC race guns are a lot picker for ammo then stock WW2 GI 1911s right?
But if you take 1000 LMT ARs and strip them down completely I'm willing to bet you can mix all parts together and build 1000 random rifles that will function as well as the 1000 LMT sent you...
Top that off, all 1000 will function from day one.
That's the difference between quality and cheap.
Whaaaaaaaaat??????????
That's not the difference between "quality and cheap", that's the POINT of a mass-produced military weapon! From a logistics point of view why would anyone want a rifle in the field that they can't swap broken bolts & or worn barrels out of without having a complete refit??? Since the industrial revolution this has been a FUNDAMENTAL of military small-arms fabrication.
I bet you're right, at least I certainly hope you are! If LMT's parts only fit certain rifles, they should be the ones checking QC. I'm quite certain that if you took apart every single Norinco AR15 clone and reassembled them you could interchange parts. As "USP" mentioned, their guns & parts aren't made in the same factories. Their version of QC falls under the "good enough" rules. But you can be damn sure that their parts will all fit, albeit loosely.
Companies like Les Baer have a niche market, discerning shooters who want the best AR they can buy. Guns from guys like Les are custom guns, built using the AR platform. To compare one of those to a norinco is like comparing a custom M98 to the dusty sporterized Yugo Mauser sitting in the back corner of bob's guns & tackle, you know, the one with the price tag that used to say $150, then $125, then $100, and now $75. It's not the difference between "quality and cheap," it's the difference between Custom and mass production.
THAT BEING SAID, If I recall correctly, there was a similar discussion on the inter-webz when a certain Chinese company began to import a rifle they called the "M305," and sold it for a whopping $399. It seems to me that they did have some issues back in the day, a number of them, and the haters couldn't have been happier. Fast forward to today and the M305/M14S is well established in the Canadian shooting sports community, and to speak ill of it on this forum would be heresy. I have three "new model" M305s at home, and I still think that fit & finish are terrible. Those stocks? ugh. sights? don't get me started. But the general consensus after all these years is that the Norinco M305 receiver is a step UP from Springfield Armouries. Hmmmmm......
I don't own a Norinco AR15, and I doubt I ever will. I've never even fired one, so I can't really compare it. I will say that I'm willing to give them a fair shake, but at the end of the day, I believe that you get what you pay for.
This thread must die.
Tim H
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My first AR15 was a US Made A1 SGW Olympic Arms (with three 30 round mags) Paid $550 and it was so-so. Colt was the only game in town at the time and they were head and shoulders above the rest. Now the Bushy's, LMT's and others give'em a run for their money. Chinese copies will ALWAYS catch up. I've heard nothing but hood things about the Norc M4's in stock configuration...
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