AR Vs XCR

Wow you guys are great with answers !!! Wasn't expecting less !!!


I forgot to mention (title is misleading) that I already own several ARs in addition of working with AR platform for the last 12yrs :p

For me, the interest is coming from its NR status and after reading all the comments, I'll be gettkng a brand new one NR in a near future :)

Thank you for feeding this "terrible" addiction
 
Before you answer that, you need to know the abuse my rifle has been through. I'm not a range shooter, I set up courses with up to 100 targets over 100 yard run. I can't so that at the range. I shoot it hard, I have 14 mags for a reason. I treat it like a rental. I've got al least an hour of video if anyone's in question.

That sounds like a lot of fun, I think you need more mags though. I'm up to 20 pmags and about the same in 5/30 gi style mags.
Some of my friends think I have a magazine addiction problem but I think I need a few more just in case :D lol
 
More time shooting less time reloading (untill they are all empty lol) is my motto.
 
Not sure what the issue is I shoot the #### out of my xcr, no issues reliably eats chinese ammo and spits it out. It's not a range gun but prone supported on a small gravel hill the best I achieved with iron sights and chinese ammo is an 1 1/2 at a hundred meters 5 rounds one flyer. The weight what are you talking about it has a nice heft to it I used to carry a fn years ago it wasn't an issue back then it's not an issue now.
love the gun it works and works well, just coming up on 2300 rounds nothing busted and no issues.
only thing that would make me sell is if ATRS produces their modern hunter in 556 now there is an awsome canadian built rifle.
 
Not sure what the issue is I shoot the #### out of my xcr, no issues reliably eats chinese ammo and spits it out. It's not a range gun but prone supported on a small gravel hill the best I achieved with iron sights and chinese ammo is an 1 1/2 at a hundred meters 5 rounds one flyer. The weight what are you talking about it has a nice heft to it I used to carry a fn years ago it wasn't an issue back then it's not an issue now.
love the gun it works and works well, just coming up on 2300 rounds nothing busted and no issues.
only thing that would make me sell is if ATRS produces their modern hunter in 556 now there is an awsome canadian built rifle.

Yes, but when it is your brother's sister's neice's girlfriend's uncle's rifle, things are bound to go wrong.....Damn RobArms!

I too have had zero issues with mine and the weight and balance of my quad rail is just fine.

OP, there have been valid comments made here by actual owners, some espousing the merits of the rifle and some outlining its issues or outright failings. While I did read the opinions of those who have only ever shot a buddies (oddly enough the same guys posting here! :rolleyes:), I only ever considered those made by actual owners, but I am just crazy that way. I did know I wanted the new gen rifle, quad rail just before the keymod version, so I joined the XCR forum to get the real skinny on the rifle. You will get the straight dope there.
 
After rebuilding my XCR-M it is now reliable yea changed out the whole Bolt system and Ejection system.

I was getting FTE FTF and where the bolt actually jammed so bad it would require like the FN MAG and a nice Butt smack into the ground to get rid of jam or a very violent pull of the plastic charger (wish it was metal)

wish it was day 1
 
Yes, remember that only an actual owner of a rifle can have an opinion because simply shooting someone elses rifle and being with them when it falls apart or having them tell you about the problems they are having with it doesn't count. :jerkit:

OP, buy whatever you want and listen to whoever you want. But whatever you do don't listen to me, I've only been shooting black rifles for close to 20 years (non military civilian rifles) and I shot my first XCR the first year they were released in Canada, I've shot pretty much every generation of them and have seen the improvements that have been made and compared them side by side to other rifles in my collection. When I say I've shot them I don't mean that I ran one 5 round mag through it, I mean I spent at least an afternoon shooting with the owner. I've had six or seven close friends own them and only one guy still does.
But as stated, I've never owned one myself so I don't know anything about them other than they are some type of semi auto 223 that is fed from a magazine :rolleyes:.

The fact that I've never owned one may say more about them than if I had owned one. I've owned almost every non restricted semi auto that we are allowed to have in Canada but never an XCR even though as I stated earlier I've always been interested in them, why do you think that is? It's not the money since I've owned much more expensive rifles like a Swiss Arms green target version, my last SL8-4 was worth over $3000 with all the extras it had not including optics, I have AR's worth over $2000, I've got around $4000 into my ACR not including optics. Hell, I have bolt action rifles that just the scope alone costs more than an XCR.
I'm not trying to brag by posting all the rifles I've owned, I'm trying to show that I have experience with many platforms and that price doesn't stop me from owning what I want. Most of the XCR fanboys on here have probably never owned anything else and really have nothing to compare to other than maybe a couple of them who served and know the C7.

If I thought the XCR was worth the money and that I would be happy with one I would own one.

Decide for yourself based on any info you can dig up and I hope you enjoy whatever you choose. Be sure to post pics and a nice range report of whatever you buy.
 
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Yes, but when it is your brother's sister's neice's girlfriend's uncle's rifle, things are bound to go wrong.....Damn RobArms!


OP, there have been valid comments made here by actual owners, some espousing the merits of the rifle and some outlining its issues or outright failings. While I did read the opinions of those who have only ever shot a buddies (oddly enough the same guys posting here! :rolleyes:), I only ever considered those made by actual owners, but I am just crazy that way.

and we are back to discounting experiences based on the name that appears on the reciept:rolleyes: that didn't take long...........

Amazing how such a small detail can trump any amount of experience.
 
Mine is NOT the keymod version and is heavy! Not the best woods rifle IMO. Accuracy is ok but there were FTE and FTF issues so not as reliable as Alex Robinson would have you believe. If switching from 18.6 to another 18.6 barrel, there is no problem. you have 1 week to register a restricted upper for any rifle when switching to a short barrel and this will apply to the XCR. I think just switching barrels for range and then to hunting or plinking is a grey area and a legal expert may have to chime in.

NR status is the only advantage XCR has over AR.

No, you cannot do this. You'd need 2 lowers. One registered having the restricted barrel length.

Exactly....lower is the part registered as either non....or as restricted.



Accuracy is going to depend on afew things but because of the design of the XCR don't expect sub moa it's not a rifle from Sako or ATRS. I have the version before the keymod and when I shoot bulk I average a 2" group at 100 and when I use a target grade ammo I average slightly better. But still for the design of the rifle I'm happy with it. Past 100 yards for 223 in my opinion the pent rating power isn't there for hunting so the caliber wouldn't be my first choice. Most of what I've put through it of the almost 5000 rounds has been all bulk and my only FTE was because I got too aggressive with the gas setting right off the hop. I followed the break in moving my gas settings down as I go since then and have yet to have a FTF and FTE. And the amount of people having problems with this are few and usually due to improper gas settings. And despite what most might think the lower of a rifle is actually the restricted and registered part of the rifle not the upper. As long as you don't go below the non restricted barrel length minimum you can switch all day long in a non restricted rifle. AR'S are restricted based on the lower not the upper which is why it doesn't matter what enthusiasm your barrel is its still restricted.

I think the XCR upper is the serialized part so you could own a non restricted upper and a restricted upper and just use one lower if the uppers and lowers are interchangeable. I have only shot 4 or 5 XCR-L's and one XCR-M but never owned one so I'm not completely sure about the details of interchangeability. It would be expensive if it could work though.

As for the comparison between the two. The AR is lighter, more accurate, more reliable, and has much better parts and accessories support.

All you need to switch size in the XCR-L is the barrel, extractor and bcg. In terms of price I've seen a lot of specials been run on the XCR where you buy the rifle and get the other caliber for $250. So basically 2 guns for relatively cheep in my opinion. XCR-L'S comes in either 223 or 6.5 and the M comes in either 7.62x39 or 308. Each are interchangeable within the L or M designation. AR'S range from 7.5 to 9 yup 9 pounds and yes can be cheaper but can also be more expensive than the XCR so neither of those statements are true. The keymod weighs in at just over 7 pounds and the older XCR weighing in at just and I mean just over 8 which in my opinion is still not bad. And in terms of accessories I haven't found anything for my AR that I couldn't buy for my XCR. I love them both but when I go to the range the XCR always comes with me and I just love it. There's pros and cons and price is one of them. If you buy a cheap AR like a.......Norc it's gonna be less but have its fair share of problems and picky with ammo. Or you could buy a PWS AR and it's more than an XCR. You can't go wrong with an XCR, it's non restricted and if you follow the proper gas settings break in you won't have any issues. I never thought I'd be an XCR guy but I know I'll be a fan till the day I die. So pick one up and have a blast....pun intended lol.
 
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Sure a used early generation XCR-L that has been back for repairs twice and has 5000+ rounds of Norinco bulk through it. You're going to pay at least $2000 for a fairly new one with low round count.
The best thing about the XCR is the service Wolverine is providing. Any problems at all and they send you new parts or have you send the rifle back for service. The service is phenomenal and I'm very impressed but the rifle has one main issue that needs to be addressed before it will be a good shooter. The barrel retention system is crap for consistent accuracy. When they address that and combined with the new much lighter keymod upper the rifle will move up to being a great rifle, until then it is just a cool rifle that because of Canadian law creating a niche for it continues to sell for $500-$700 more than it should.

Better jump on the EE and take a look around....I bought my XCR which is the gen before the keymod with 100....yup 100 rounds through it for $1800 shipped to my door. Plus it had an upgraded pistol grip and the dlask adaptor with magpul slide stock....and I see them every day of the week on there around these prices...you literally just have to pull up the EE and wait for a deal....oh and I've got all supporting paperwork from wolverine the original seller to the guy I bought it from off the EE
 
xcr = paying for status. If your cool with that, then great guns. They are rock solid though, Mine was 1.5-4 moa depending on ammo. Sold it, like my bolt guns more then expensive plinkers.
 
All you need to switch size in the XCR-L is the barrel, extractor and bcg. In terms of price I've seen a lot of specials been run on the XCR where you buy the rifle and get the other caliber for $250. So basically 2 guns for relatively cheep in my opinion. XCR-L'S comes in either 223 or 6.5 and the M comes in either 7.62x39 or 308. Each are interchangeable within the L or M designation. AR'S range from 7.5 to 9 yup 9 pounds and yes can be cheaper but can also be more expensive than the XCR so neither of those statements are true. The keymod weighs in at just over 7 pounds and the older XCR weighing in at just and I mean just over 8 which in my opinion is still not bad. And in terms of accessories I haven't found anything for my AR that I couldn't buy for my XCR. I love them both but when I go to the range the XCR always comes with me and I just love it. There's pros and cons and price is one of them. If you buy a cheap AR like a.......Norc it's gonna be less but have its fair share of problems and picky with ammo. Or you could buy a PWS AR and it's more than an XCR. You can't go wrong with an XCR, it's non restricted and if you follow the proper gas settings break in you won't have any issues. I never thought I'd be an XCR guy but I know I'll be a fan till the day I die. So pick one up and have a blast....pun intended lol.

Did you say you actually own an XCR-L?
You are so wrong I have a hard time believing you could own one yet know so little about the rifle.
First, the extractor is part of the Bolt, I believe you are talking about the shell deflector.
Second you don't change the size you change the caliber, this may just be a slight error in wording but it makes you sound like a newbie who has very little firearms experience.
Third, the XCR-L can be swapped between 223/5.56 or 6.8 SPC or 7.62x39. The XCR-M can be swapped between 308/7.62x51 or 243 or 260.

Your weight comparisons don't mean much since depending on the configuration you choose for your AR you can have one well over 9 pounds using a heavy contour target barrel and heavy fully adjustable stock which makes it pretty much a bench only rifle but if that's the way you want to set it up you understand that going in. That by the way isn't even an option for an XCR, with an XCR you are stuck with a low quality light barrel or a low quality heavy barrel and that's it. There aren't 30 different manufacturers making compatible parts, there is only Rob Arms.
This is what I meant earlier about lack of parts and accessories, I wasn't talking about being able to change the grip or the stock, I mean bolt carrier groups, barrels, uppers, lowers, recoil springs, buffers, gas blocks. Every piece on an AR can be changed for either simply cosmetics if that's what you're into or parts can be swapped to actually tune the rifle to run better and smoother.

I'm not going to tell anyone not to buy an XCR, everyone is free to do what they want to do but unless you need non restricted status there are much better ways to spend your money and end up with a better rifle with money left over for a case of ammo.

As for your comparison of Norc AR's, I don't even consider the M-4gery to be an AR, sure there have been guys that buy them and don't have problems but just like all other Norinco products there is virtually no QC and you are rolling the dice when you buy anything with that name on the box. there is no consistency and no warranty so if you get one of the problem ones then too bad so sad, it's yours and you can try to make it work or put it on the EE and hope for the best.
Also if you're going to compare prices of XCR's to AR's go with new for both or used for both. A new PWS is less than a new XCR, yes on the used market the PWS will usually pull in a little more but there might be a reason for that. Maybe people know that when you buy a PWS you will be buying a quality, problem free high end firearm and when you buy an XCR you might get a good one and you might get a problem child. I just sold one of my PWS rifles and got more than you paid for your XCR. Just like cars, the higher the quality the better the resale value.
The PWS AR I still own is incredible, 5000ish rounds later it hasn't had a single broken part or a failure that wasn't the fault of the operator, can't blame the rifle if the operator doesn't fully seat the magazine. Add to that, even after 5000 rounds my 12 inch barrel piston operated rifle will shoot 77gr Black Hills match into about 0.8-0.9 moa. I haven't even started trying to develop a handload for it yet but after seeing what it can do with factory built stuff I'm looking forward to getting some time to start load development for it.

I agree with your statement about the accuracy of the XCR. It's adequate for a battle rifle or for hunting small game at closer ranges but if you compare the accuracy to an AR or an ACR it's terrible. This isn't a breaking point which makes the rifle a piece of crap but it is frustrating to continually read guys say their rifle can do more than it really can because they fluke out and get one good group a day then claim the rifle is just as accurate as an AR. Even a cheap AR will shoot tighter groups than an XCR and that's ok, you have to sacrifice something if you want a non restricted black rifle in Canada and don't want to spend even more money, I'm pretty sure the XCR can shoot as well as a Tavor and the Tavor cost more and doesn't have caliber conversion options, The Tavor offers a compact non restricted platform which is another compromise, My ACR is more accurate than an XCR but also costs more to end up non restricted which is another compromise.

Everyone needs to decide what they want and how much they are willing to spend, the XCR has had a shaky first few years which have given it a bad reputation in the reliability department, maybe the new ones are better but time and rounds down range will be how we know, running 500 rounds down a rifle tells nothing, until a few guys with the new keymod generation have a few thousand rounds down the pipe and we stop hearing about problems with them the XCR will be a tough sell to more experienced shooters who have been around a while and have seen the company's past issues.

Better jump on the EE and take a look around....I bought my XCR which is the gen before the keymod with 100....yup 100 rounds through it for $1800 shipped to my door. Plus it had an upgraded pistol grip and the dlask adaptor with magpul slide stock....and I see them every day of the week on there around these prices...you literally just have to pull up the EE and wait for a deal....oh and I've got all supporting paperwork from wolverine the original seller to the guy I bought it from off the EE

So in your eyes a drop in value of $700 (without considering taxes and shipping) from new price is a selling point? I bet the guys that buy them new and sell them don't think so.
That's a pretty good return on investment, 100 rounds for $700 f:P: :kickInTheNuts:
 
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You'll have to excuse my terminology mess up posted it on the fly from my cell....I do understand there are more accessories for an AR I guess I should have said there's definitely enough for an XCR to be customizable to each shooters option. Instead of getting long winded into it. The weights, accuracy and the ability to accessorize the two rifles are relatively the same. I do agree there are some AR'S that are amazing for accuracy and some that aren't. In terms of resale in all fairness no rifle is any different than owning a car the second the first rounds fired it's worth less considering the or only 2300 new a 500 drop is expected. It's no different than a PWS AR I looked at being 1000 less. I think dollar for dollar and taking into account depreciation there's not a whole lot of difference.
 
In terms of reliability every new rifles gonna have growing pains and some still have them just look at the model Remington 700 it's been around since basically forever and they have had recent issues. I've yet to have an issue with mine.
 
any semi auto rifle that fails to feed, fails to eject, regularly according to many reports on this site for the old and new xcr, is not worth my attention.
 
In terms of reliability every new rifles gonna have growing pains and some still have them just look at the model Remington 700 it's been around since basically forever and they have had recent issues. I've yet to have an issue with mine.

The XCR was designed in 2004 and has been around since 2006. Plenty of time to work out the bugs. It isn't a huge deal I guess since Mr.Wolverine tells us there are far fewer problems than we have been led to believe by all the negative threads on this site and others.

The issues with the new Remington 700 was one issue with a new trigger they tried. No other problems. I actually have one with the new trigger that hasn't been updated yet, I've had no issues of any kind but will be getting it looked at eventually.


You'll have to excuse my terminology mess up posted it on the fly from my cell....I do understand there are more accessories for an AR I guess I should have said there's definitely enough for an XCR to be customizable to each shooters option. Instead of getting long winded into it. The weights, accuracy and the ability to accessorize the two rifles are relatively the same. I do agree there are some AR'S that are amazing for accuracy and some that aren't. In terms of resale in all fairness no rifle is any different than owning a car the second the first rounds fired it's worth less considering the or only 2300 new a 500 drop is expected. It's no different than a PWS AR I looked at being 1000 less. I think dollar for dollar and taking into account depreciation there's not a whole lot of difference.

Customizing grips and stocks isn't the same as having aftermarket support and cross compatibility with parts from other manufacturers. Being able to change the stock and grip are of little concern when it comes to improving the quality of your rifle. With an AR I can buy a $1000 rifle then swap in higher quality parts like barrel, BCG and gas block and buffer and springs to make the rifle function better, not just look better or be more comfortable. The actual rifle not just the furniture is what would be nice to have some options with the XCR, I've seen quite a few posts of guys needing a new buffer before they even get through the 500 round break-in, to me that means it could use an upgraded part not just a replacement from Rob Arms. There have been a couple broken op rods, again some options for replacement would be nice.
No rifle is perfect but as I said, if you don't need the non restricted category then there really isn't much to talk about any more. The AR has been around long enough to have the support needed from numerous manufacturers and has proven itself all over the world.

If you saw a PWS for $1000 off retail you were a fool not to buy it.
 
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I've owned them all.
This is my order of preference based on an average of accuracy/reliability/ergonomics.
Ar>Swiss>nr acr>tavor>xcr l>xcr m>t97>Cz858>Benelli mr1>mini 14>sks
 
I've owned them all.
This is my order of preference based on an average of accuracy/reliability/ergonomics.
Ar>Swiss>nr acr>tavor>xcr l>xcr m>t97>Cz858>Benelli mr1>mini 14>sks

That's pretty much my order as well but swap the Swiss for the NR ACR and move the T97 to second last, it's actually a toss-up between the mini-14 and the T-97 for last.
My Swiss Arms didn't impress me in the accuracy department but it sure was a beautifully built rifle and built like a tank as well, everything was nicely finished and very robust.
I'd probably take an SKS before either the mini or T97 just because they are dirt cheap to buy and shoot and last forever if you clean them properly.
The T-97 I shot was fine but I don't like them because in my mind it is a $900 disposable rifle with no warranty or parts support and then it becomes a $1300 disposable rifle if you add the FTU.
My mini-14 was reliable if you used Ruger magazines and that's about all I have that's nice to say about it.
 
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