LuckyLuc82
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rockwood, Ontario
Nice
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AR10 for hunting
- Thread starter Ninja_En_Short
- Start date
I don't want to get into the debate over whether the AR-10 is an appropriate rifle for hunting, I've hunted with black rifles in the past and have gone back to a simple and light weight bolt action rather than haul around a heavier rifle just to have faster follow up shots. I've been lucky and never had a pack of anything dangerous come in on me while hunting so the fast follow up shots lost value to me. It's all a matter of personal preference and if you want to hunt with an AR-10 then go for it.
As for the Stag or BCL choice.
I'll never spend another dime on anything that says NEA or BCL on the side of it. They have been making firearms and firearms parts for a lot of years and they still can't seem to make 10 rifles the same. There are simply way too many reports of people having issues with their stuff to ever consider buying their stuff again.
I've owned Stag products before and found them to be well made and well finished, the Stag lower I had a few years ago also had one of the best factory triggers I've used. They also have a good warranty and I'm pretty sure I read that Arms East is taking care of the warranty issues so it should be no problem getting something fixed if needed and I trust them to take care of the customer a lot more than I trust BCL.
I do like ambi controls but I don't need them, the AR platform is actually ambidextrous from the factory, you just manipulate the controls a little differently. Do you think the guys in the military are issued a left hand gun if they put a check in the other box? No, you learn to be proficient with the platform and it's quite easy. I have a few left handed shooting buddies that have no issues with a standard AR.
I would trust your Burris stuff before I put my life behind Vortex, don't mean to crap on your stuff but Vortex don't have a great track record and three out of four of the Vortex Viper PST scopes I've owned have needed warranty service. Not a good failure rate and there are many more that will share similar stories.
Your direct impingement fears or mistrust or whatever you want to call it is unwarranted. You can easily run 1000 rounds of ammo through a DI rifle with no more than a drop of oil from time to time. DI is simply an internal piston rifle compared to external piston and unless you're running a huge amount of ammo through them in a short amount of time you really don't need to worry.
Piston AR's are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. They do have some advantages over a DI rifle but they also have disadvantages and only the end user knows which attributes of each they need the most for their intended use.
Thousands of soldiers trust their lives to DI guns every day and just because some special forces teams use a piston version doesn't mean it's better, only that it has certain strengths that they require to fulfill their job. An external piston rifle can typically be fired full of water without catastrophic failure like a DI rifle but for the vast majority of shooters their rifle will never be submerged so it doesn't matter. Piston rifles bring with them increased cost and complexity as well as proprietary parts than can only be purchased from the manufacturer rather than just buying any milspec part to get your rifle running again in the event of a mechanical failure.
For a nice mid range scope for point blank to 300 yards I would go with something like a Sightron 1-7x24 or the Nikon M223 I got recently in a trade that is 1.5-6x24, there are plenty of other manufacturers that make similar stuff but again I would personally stay away from Vortex and even though everyone says the new Bushnell stuff is nice I've had some poor experiences with them and feel the best thing about them is the warranty (just like Vortex).
With a scope that starts at 1 or 1.5x you can clearly see targets within 10 feet and can zoom in to shoot fairly accurately out to 200-300 yards if needed. You're not going to be doing any target shooting with a low power optic like that but it's enough to make a clean shot on a deer, elk, or moose within 300 yards. Having a scope and a dot sight or a set of BUIS on a rifle seems silly to me, too much crap hanging off it, I like to keep my stuff clean and light and instead I'll spend the money and get an appropriate optic for the task at hand.
As for the Stag or BCL choice.
I'll never spend another dime on anything that says NEA or BCL on the side of it. They have been making firearms and firearms parts for a lot of years and they still can't seem to make 10 rifles the same. There are simply way too many reports of people having issues with their stuff to ever consider buying their stuff again.
I've owned Stag products before and found them to be well made and well finished, the Stag lower I had a few years ago also had one of the best factory triggers I've used. They also have a good warranty and I'm pretty sure I read that Arms East is taking care of the warranty issues so it should be no problem getting something fixed if needed and I trust them to take care of the customer a lot more than I trust BCL.
I do like ambi controls but I don't need them, the AR platform is actually ambidextrous from the factory, you just manipulate the controls a little differently. Do you think the guys in the military are issued a left hand gun if they put a check in the other box? No, you learn to be proficient with the platform and it's quite easy. I have a few left handed shooting buddies that have no issues with a standard AR.
I would trust your Burris stuff before I put my life behind Vortex, don't mean to crap on your stuff but Vortex don't have a great track record and three out of four of the Vortex Viper PST scopes I've owned have needed warranty service. Not a good failure rate and there are many more that will share similar stories.
Your direct impingement fears or mistrust or whatever you want to call it is unwarranted. You can easily run 1000 rounds of ammo through a DI rifle with no more than a drop of oil from time to time. DI is simply an internal piston rifle compared to external piston and unless you're running a huge amount of ammo through them in a short amount of time you really don't need to worry.
Piston AR's are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. They do have some advantages over a DI rifle but they also have disadvantages and only the end user knows which attributes of each they need the most for their intended use.
Thousands of soldiers trust their lives to DI guns every day and just because some special forces teams use a piston version doesn't mean it's better, only that it has certain strengths that they require to fulfill their job. An external piston rifle can typically be fired full of water without catastrophic failure like a DI rifle but for the vast majority of shooters their rifle will never be submerged so it doesn't matter. Piston rifles bring with them increased cost and complexity as well as proprietary parts than can only be purchased from the manufacturer rather than just buying any milspec part to get your rifle running again in the event of a mechanical failure.
For a nice mid range scope for point blank to 300 yards I would go with something like a Sightron 1-7x24 or the Nikon M223 I got recently in a trade that is 1.5-6x24, there are plenty of other manufacturers that make similar stuff but again I would personally stay away from Vortex and even though everyone says the new Bushnell stuff is nice I've had some poor experiences with them and feel the best thing about them is the warranty (just like Vortex).
With a scope that starts at 1 or 1.5x you can clearly see targets within 10 feet and can zoom in to shoot fairly accurately out to 200-300 yards if needed. You're not going to be doing any target shooting with a low power optic like that but it's enough to make a clean shot on a deer, elk, or moose within 300 yards. Having a scope and a dot sight or a set of BUIS on a rifle seems silly to me, too much crap hanging off it, I like to keep my stuff clean and light and instead I'll spend the money and get an appropriate optic for the task at hand.
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Have you tried contacting McGowen Precision Barrels? I know one forum member has ordered a couple of .338 barrels from them.
I have purely personal reasons, from the past, that I don't want to elaborate on in the forums, that put me in the position that I'd rather not put a mcgowan barrel on my rifles. Like I say, personal reasons, nothing to do with a bad experience with an actual barrel. To date, I've never handled thier product.
Have you took delivery of the Stag 10 yet Thomas?
I am thinking of getting one and what is your thought about AR10 platform in wsm caliber?
Give the guys at Tier One Armoury in Edmonton a call, They'll get you one and will ship it to you. Great guys with access to a lot of stuff.
If you can find a compatible barrel and bolt and if whichever cartridge you want will feed from an AR-10 magazine and it runs in the same pressure ballpark as a 308 it should work.
I would stick to non magnum calibers for the platform though, the gas system and recoil system are designed for a certain pressure range and a short magnum will probably exceed those parameters. I'd love to see someone do it though if it can be made to work without damaging rifle or shooter.
The further away from 308 you go the harder it will be to tune it to run right.
good post for sure.
I don't know if I've become a dangerous game magnet these past few years but along with the successful deer and moose hunting has come some adventures too LOL
I looked at all the bolt guns and even built up a deadline action in .338federal and am just finishing making the stock for her. Cost a fortune but will be a good one to have a round. I may sell it once my stag 10 .338 fed build comes together , we'll see.
I wanted something I could swap calibers with and the wife just can't seem to get a proper stance and trigger control with a traditionally stocked firearm. So looking at options in bolt guns with a chassis and the cost just elevates for a "once a year, deer hunting rifle" for her. So with the Stag-10 , I have the option of building multiple uppers to suit the hunt and the hunter , it just so happens to be semi auto.... which I feel is a plus feature. Not many traditional hunting firearms are availlable with quick caliber conversion... I know there are some.
not debating the merits of semi auto vs bolt/lever/pump , not at all. Just merely showing how a firearm like the Stag -10 or better put, a firearm of the AR-10 type , is certainly suitable for hunting, especially because of that ability to modify the firearm quickly and easily to suit the hunter and the hunted.
For an inside 300 yard rifle, back up sights of some kind are essential in my opinion. To each his own there, but I've needed them , several times after K/O'ing an optic in a fall or drop during a hunt. It happens. hehehe not having them cost me a real nice trophy room blacktail buck once and I swore never again. My buddy's son got the buck.... his scope didn't get smashed LOL
a .338 federal barrel? or a mcgowan?
jerry at mystic precision and I already talked about the mcgowan route.
I'd like to try and support Maple Ridge Armory and am really hoping that my "money isn't an option Ryan" ..... comment in response to my correspondence was taken seriously haha
But ya, MRA is working on it I think and I don't mind waiting a few more weeks for a response.... but not much more. I will go for a full blown custom krieger barrel if I have to and they can offer a palma contour, short chambered in .338fed as a standard offering then I get an AR barrel made out of that...... $$$$
It will happen ..... just throw time and money at anything... it will eventually happen LOL
a .338 federal barrel? or a mcgowan?
jerry at mystic precision and I already talked about the mcgowan route.
I'd like to try and support Maple Ridge Armory and am really hoping that my "money isn't an option Ryan" ..... comment in response to my correspondence was taken seriously haha
But ya, MRA is working on it I think and I don't mind waiting a few more weeks for a response.... but not much more. I will go for a full blown custom krieger barrel if I have to and they can offer a palma contour, short chambered in .338fed as a standard offering then I get an AR barrel made out of that...... $$$$
It will happen ..... just throw time and money at anything... it will eventually happen LOL
338F, they carry Faxon but can get their hands on a surprising variety of stuff if you call and give them some time to track it down. Worth a shot anyway, they're awesome guys to deal with and their prices are very competitive considering they're a small shop.
Weren't there guys running Troy PAR's in 338Fed? Might be another (cheaper) option.
Lol, time and money is how I ended up building my 300BLK conversion for my ACR, had the barrel custom made then pieced the gas system together and adjusted my gas port size till I had it cycling nicely with my supersonic and subsonic loads.
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not a complete rifle no. I ordered a receiver set in early july and it arrived a few weeks ago now. I ordered a stag bolt, charging handle and buffer assembly and all that arrived as well.
Just waiting on a barrel , gas tube, gas block and handguard.
The answer is "why not" ?
We have some options now to hunt with a fine modern rifle, why not use it ? We could use an SKS, a Savage Axis or a sporterized Lee Enfield, but the option of an AR10 is there and it is very viable.
Exactly, whatever floats your boat, as long as it's legal there's nothing wrong with hunting with a black rifle.
The police or conservation officer hassling you about it only shows how incompetent they are at their jobs, if it was my job to enforce laws I would know them and stay current on the options people have available to them. Just like they like to say "ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law" I'd like to see them held to the same expectations. It's their job to know this stuff and if they wrongfully charge someone for something they can look up in 2 minutes they should loose their jobs.
I've chosen to not hunt big game with a black rifle any more but it was because my Rem 700 is lighter and just as accurate so it just made sense to stop lugging around an 8-10 pound rifle when I can carry a 7 pound rifle. I may use my Modern Hunter for a deer this year though, just for chits and giggles and some photo's
Every rifle a hunter owns needs to earn it's place in the safe by putting food on the table or putting down a predator at some point
This, I purchased a Stag-10 as a general purpose rifle for hunting and range practise. I prefer the ergonomics of modern sporting rifles. Personal choice.
If you are seriously considering a BCL build, which I would recommend against given the Stag option that now exists, I would highly recommend you have it type 3 hard coat anodized before you consider anything else. Cost $150 with stripping BCL’s extremely thick ceracoat application that hides a lot of cosmetic and not so cosmetic tooling machine marks.
The inside of my upper where the BCG rides resembled spiral fluting after it was stripped.
I only had approximately 500 rounds through my Gen 1 when the take down pin holes ovaled and i began to experience not just side to side wobble but significant movement up and down and back to front between the upper and lower.
Luckily the 65 lbs of torque their monkey used when tightening the barrel nut did not distort the threads on the upper.
I cannot tell you how pissed I am that BCL skipped the anodizing. Absolutely effing retarded in my not so humble opinion.
I have now had mine anodized and will be picking it up from ATRS and then will have to look at machining custom take down pins.
Pissed does not even begin to described how I feel about that.
Rant off!
Might want to look at the Armalite oversized TDP, I might be going that route with my Gen 1, although they've proven tough to order. I also might throw an Accuwedge in just to see, it's not worth the $$$ to get crazy with.
My set started with zero slop, and it grew surprisingly fast, this is maybe the softest aluminum receiver set I've handled even if it is just 6061. If any of you recall, I've had one of the "good ones" of Gen 1, serial number 0000X and had excellent accuracy results with it. However, I've now swapped the parts over to my Stag 10 and won't look back.
