AR15 3Gun Modifications?
- Thread starter cereal83
- Start date
Some kind of unusual team action shooting AR stage. After buddy there finishes he has to dump the weapon fully empty on the table. So he drops mag, racks it, bolt goes home on empty. Then it looks like she either made a rookie move or intentionally fully loaded the mag (due to round requirements on the stage), making it very difficult to get the mag to lock in. Instead of muscling it until it secures she slapped it with the knee. I've never seen anyone do that, but not a terrible idea I guess. Then she racks it, but it wasn't secure, so it falls out. Now repeat, but this time it locked in. It looks like the mag is a PMAG 30rnd with a +5 extension. PMAG 30 rounders loaded full are very difficult to get into an AR, I always download 1 or 2 when I know I might have to load them on a closed bolt.
As to the malfunction failure to fire, for some reason the gun is difficult to get out of battery. Might have been a oversized case? Actually the way she thought she had it mortared open, but then does a conventional rack and a round falls out the magwell, it might have been a spent case on top of the bolt up in the gas key area.
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The jam is like 10 rounds into the mag though.
This topic is a super slippery slope, with money being the casualty. There are all kinds of parts you can add to your AR to make it 3gun racey. But there's also a point where you've replaced 85% of the parts on your rifle and you realize you could have just bought a nicer one and been ahead money wise. It's especially pricey right now because of the strong US dollar, and all these fancy parts are from US manufacturers. (Except the - Canadian - Triggertech trigger, which is my recommendation - rates as the second best trigger on the market and is way cheaper than its competition).
Personally my advice is to buy a nice used racey AR on the EE or from the States and sell yours. I guarantee it's a cheaper way to get to the end point of this path.
Personally my advice is to buy a nice used racey AR on the EE or from the States and sell yours. I guarantee it's a cheaper way to get to the end point of this path.
My opinion on the list of best bang for the amount of gain it will have on your rifle shooting:
1. comp (something like a JP or Miculek for $80-120)
2. trigger (triggertech for around $220)
3. 14-15" light freefloated foreend, with minimal rails. Fully round, or keymod/mlok on 3 sides and rail on top. (OK to go down to 12" if you are sub-6' tall).
4. 1-4x or 1-6x scope on a one-piece 2-3" cantilever scope mount. Vortex 1-4, various brands like AROptics 1-4, Strike Eagle 1-6, or Millet 1-6. Personally I like my Millet 1-6 and think it is the best buy in this ~$400 class.
5. Raptor charging handle (not sure why anyone would buy anything but a Raptor)
6. JP captured spring
7. adjustable gas block
8. 16" intermediate/rifle-length or 18" rifle-length barrel in a lightweight profile
9. Lightweight bolt carrier
10. Nice grip of your choice. If you have size L or larger hands I recommend the Ergo huge grip.
11. 45 or 60 degree ambi safety
12. BAD lever
13. Nice stock of your choice
If you made it to the bottom of this list and you started with an AR you now have nothing left of your original AR except the receivers and a few pins. I'm scared to even add it all up. There is at least one extremely nice JP AR on the EE for about $3k that starts to look like a good value when you add up the price of these parts.
BTW titanium bolt carriers are selling for about $500 in Canada right now.
1. comp (something like a JP or Miculek for $80-120)
2. trigger (triggertech for around $220)
3. 14-15" light freefloated foreend, with minimal rails. Fully round, or keymod/mlok on 3 sides and rail on top. (OK to go down to 12" if you are sub-6' tall).
4. 1-4x or 1-6x scope on a one-piece 2-3" cantilever scope mount. Vortex 1-4, various brands like AROptics 1-4, Strike Eagle 1-6, or Millet 1-6. Personally I like my Millet 1-6 and think it is the best buy in this ~$400 class.
5. Raptor charging handle (not sure why anyone would buy anything but a Raptor)
6. JP captured spring
7. adjustable gas block
8. 16" intermediate/rifle-length or 18" rifle-length barrel in a lightweight profile
9. Lightweight bolt carrier
10. Nice grip of your choice. If you have size L or larger hands I recommend the Ergo huge grip.
11. 45 or 60 degree ambi safety
12. BAD lever
13. Nice stock of your choice
If you made it to the bottom of this list and you started with an AR you now have nothing left of your original AR except the receivers and a few pins. I'm scared to even add it all up. There is at least one extremely nice JP AR on the EE for about $3k that starts to look like a good value when you add up the price of these parts.
BTW titanium bolt carriers are selling for about $500 in Canada right now.
This is a good list. If you are looking for a good rifle with an eye to value I would opt out of the following from the list: 6, 7, 8, 9 and 11. Item 8, the barrel won't make much of a difference at 50 yards and under and if you are shooting out to 300+, I'd go with a stainless match barrel in medium weight. You should really ask if you need this because this is a $500+ item, and they wear out fast.
Regarding the comp, makes a huge difference in speed. Have tried many and the Precision Armament M4 72 can't be beat. Horrible to use on the shooting line but great in run-and-gun.
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Some good lists here for a 3 Gun AR, but as mentioned be careful what you spend on as many of the items have very limited returns. Here's my list of requirements...
- 16-18" Barrel, 1-9 twist or faster (1-8 or 1-7 would be my preference over 1-9), capable of 1.5 MOA or better. Go with a longer gas system, ie Mid-length+. Fancy stainless match barrels are nice, but my chrome lined DD was more than serviceable.
- 12-15" Free float hand guard, of your design of choice. I like a slim keymod rail with a full length top rail, but have shot very successfully with a 12' quad rail too.
- Decent Trigger... there are too many to list here, tons of good options.
- Muzzle brake
These are the basics, and what you need IMO to have a decent 3 gun rifle. Everything else rifle wise has very diminishing returns (assuming your stock fits and the rifle is reliable). The next area I would consider spending a good amount of money on is a scope. I like vortex so the Strike Eagle 1-6 or PST 1-4 would be good budget minded options... but if you can afford it the Razor HD Gen II 1-6 is really a cut above. This is probably the most popular higher end 3 gun scope, and worth the extra IMO. Many 3 gun matches are won/lost on longer range rifle shooting, and everything on my list is geared to helping make those longer/accurate shots. The brake less so than the others, but being able to spot your own hits/misses and recover quickly for another shot makes it applicable as well.
IMO I would go for the high end scope before I even considered going down the path of adjustable gas, light weight BCG's, fancy springs or other add ons like charging handles and fancy selectors.
None of it will matter at all though if you don't have the time/money to shoot at least a couple thousand rounds a year, so keep this in mind as well.
- 16-18" Barrel, 1-9 twist or faster (1-8 or 1-7 would be my preference over 1-9), capable of 1.5 MOA or better. Go with a longer gas system, ie Mid-length+. Fancy stainless match barrels are nice, but my chrome lined DD was more than serviceable.
- 12-15" Free float hand guard, of your design of choice. I like a slim keymod rail with a full length top rail, but have shot very successfully with a 12' quad rail too.
- Decent Trigger... there are too many to list here, tons of good options.
- Muzzle brake
These are the basics, and what you need IMO to have a decent 3 gun rifle. Everything else rifle wise has very diminishing returns (assuming your stock fits and the rifle is reliable). The next area I would consider spending a good amount of money on is a scope. I like vortex so the Strike Eagle 1-6 or PST 1-4 would be good budget minded options... but if you can afford it the Razor HD Gen II 1-6 is really a cut above. This is probably the most popular higher end 3 gun scope, and worth the extra IMO. Many 3 gun matches are won/lost on longer range rifle shooting, and everything on my list is geared to helping make those longer/accurate shots. The brake less so than the others, but being able to spot your own hits/misses and recover quickly for another shot makes it applicable as well.
IMO I would go for the high end scope before I even considered going down the path of adjustable gas, light weight BCG's, fancy springs or other add ons like charging handles and fancy selectors.
None of it will matter at all though if you don't have the time/money to shoot at least a couple thousand rounds a year, so keep this in mind as well.
Thanks for the responses guys. I know this will help future people getting into the sport. I see alot of good advice here and I think I might see if I can buy a used package on the EE as it might be better as Adam and a few other suggested. "Polishing a turd" is not really what I'd like to do.
I was also looking at a new Armalite 3gun ready AR and it already has a 15" free float handguard, Timney trigger @ 3lbs, Raptor charging handle, 18" stainless barrel. comp etc etc etc.
First I will check the EE but maybe I just go with the Armalite and sell my AR.
I was also looking at a new Armalite 3gun ready AR and it already has a 15" free float handguard, Timney trigger @ 3lbs, Raptor charging handle, 18" stainless barrel. comp etc etc etc.
First I will check the EE but maybe I just go with the Armalite and sell my AR.
Thanks BeerBaron for your advice. Much appreciated.
667, I try to get out every weekend with it but in reality it's every other weekend or every 3rd weekend but atleast once a month. Ammo just needs to come down 50% and I can shoot twice as often lol
Stevo, I agree you don't need the best as practise will trump gear. What AR do you run? Is it a budget one or a decent one?
667, I try to get out every weekend with it but in reality it's every other weekend or every 3rd weekend but atleast once a month. Ammo just needs to come down 50% and I can shoot twice as often lol
Stevo, I agree you don't need the best as practise will trump gear. What AR do you run? Is it a budget one or a decent one?
I've got a 12.5" NEA and a 14.5" Armalite that I use interchangeably. If it's reliable and accurate enough, differences are minimal to non-existent between similarly configured rifles, regardless of cost.
Most rifle problems are caused by the shooter, regardless of how much the gun cost.
She is incapable of properly seating a magazine. Full or not they do seat on a closed bolt if done properly. Her stoppage sucked and her "mortar" fix worked but could have led to a snapped stock, she should have collapsed the stock all the way before mortaring the rifle. Then again with her requirement for knee slapping the magazine to seat it I doubt she was putting much force into the mortar movement.
If people want to improve their three gun performance then spend the money on a good optic and lots and lots of ammo and practice. Seeing a lot of money on the line means nothing. I've watched(and whipped) many competitors with way more money in their rifle than I put into all three of my guns turn out some absolutely brutal times/scores. Unfamiliarity with their guns and gear are huge culprits when it comes to poor times/scores and the big one is just not being able to shoot. Bad zeroes or bad form or both I'm not sure. On the other hand I have also seen guys with iron sights and a bone stock AR do very very well because they had a solid zero and knew how to make the rifle dance.
I have never felt out gunned at a match with fairly stock set up.
All I have done to my LMT was swap in a decent brake, handguard and optic.
However, if you desire a tricked out 3 gun AR, I would recommend buying a factory made 3 gun AR.
It will work and you will probably save a fair bit of coin as compared to transforming your current AR.
Check out Stag's 3 Gun AR... good bang for the buck IMO.
All I have done to my LMT was swap in a decent brake, handguard and optic.
However, if you desire a tricked out 3 gun AR, I would recommend buying a factory made 3 gun AR.
It will work and you will probably save a fair bit of coin as compared to transforming your current AR.
Check out Stag's 3 Gun AR... good bang for the buck IMO.
grimreefer
Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
Does having two optics put you in a different class in matches across Canada like it does under 3GN rules?
Thanks for the info. I have looked into Stag 3guns but they seem sold out. There is also a Core 15 for sale on the EE but I haven't done any research on it yet.
I think it would move you to open.
