AR15 Lower Differences

Redhouse

Redhouse

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So, there are a couple of different discussions going on with respect to lowers of different brands. I'm a noob with my first (Core15) incoming, and I'm doing TONS of reading and watching vids right now. Of course, now I'm looking at parts and a build for a second, and I don't have my first yet :mad: . Mmmm, that koolaid was pretty good.

Anyways, I get that one should use what they have and figure out what works and what doesn't. But what would be nice to see is a chart, table, comparison, whatever that actually shows what features are on different brands - then, when one gets to the point of knowing what they want, there would be a reference point available.

Given my knowledge base is *beginning of the learning curve* at best, feel free to add brands - I know there are many beyond this list. Your commentary can be of either a stripped or equipped lower, or even of the lower that only comes on a finished rifle.

Lowers Only: Key Features and/or Detriments

  • CANADIAN :canadaFlag:
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  • ATRS - MADE IN CANADA, billet 7075, Gen4 now in production with ambi bolt release and ambi safety.
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  • Blue Line - 7075-T6 forged
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  • Cadex - MADE IN CANADA, billet 7075-T6
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  • Dlask Arms - 7075-T6 forged
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  • Diemaco/Colt Canada - (some were CMT)
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  • NEA15 - MADE IN CANADA, billet 6061
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  • IMPORT
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  • Aero Precision - high shelf
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  • Armalite - Did forge and machine their own, both uppers and lowers. Now believed to be Aero. High shelf
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  • BCM
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  • Bushmaster - (was CMT made/forged, some possibly LMT/forged, also read LAR)(Since bought by Remington, use DPMS - which, it is said, are LAR) Low shelf
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  • CMMG
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  • Colt - (possibly CMT made/forged, possibly in house) High shelf, and for many years machined with auto sear block, current production does not have the block. The Colt sear block was in use from '91 to '95. New Colt's have small pivot pins and small trigger pins
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  • Core15 - forged 7075-T6, class II hardcoat anodized, beveled magwell. 'Hardcore' series is billet, with very low profile magwell and oversized trigger guard.
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  • Daniel Defense
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  • DPMS - (possibly LAR made/forged) (some are 6061) Low shelf
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  • DSArms - in house (I also read LMT made)
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  • Knights (KAC) - (LMT made/forged - another post says they make their own 'cut' = billet?) Ambi bolt catch and mag release with push button sling cup built into the lower
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  • Larue
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  • LMT - (self made, distributor/manufacturer) High shelf
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  • Lone Wolf R&D
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  • Mega - (self made - MMS = Mega Machine Shop) 7075-T6. Low shelf
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  • Norinco - made in China.
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  • Noveske - (LAR made/forged, I also read CMT made) - Gen2 has one piece trigger guard and a flared magwell
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  • Palmeto State Armorey - Old AP serials made by Aero Precision newer LW serials made by LWSchneider. 7075-T6 forged current production.
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  • PWS
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  • Remington - (DPMS)
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  • Rock River - (CMT made/forged) High shelf
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  • Smith & Wesson - (CMT made/forged) (Performance Center is in house/billet) High shelf
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  • Spike's Tactical - Wide range of serials made by different companys - current reading says LAR + MMS + others. Low shelf (?)
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  • Stag - (CMT made/forged) High shelf
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  • STI
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  • VLTOR - 7075 forged, custom machined oversized mag release, magwell grip enhancing cuts
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  • Vulcan Armaments - Carbon/Aramid Lower Receiver
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  • Wilson - (at least some are CMT made/forged)


There's a great reference on general rifle builds from some 'common' manufacturers here https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AqmgMm61Ok7WdExwaG16OENzOEZ1akp2a3Y2NjMxTEE&single=true&gid=2&output=html including sections broken out for lowers, bolts, barrels & uppers. link courtesy of m4carbine dot net

*While forged truly is a small % stronger than billet, the generally accepted wisdom is that both are more than strong enough for the platform. In the same vein, 7075 is stronger than 6061 but both will get the job done.

**high shelf vs. low shelf {{{SEE POST #9}}}- This is in reference to RDIAS compatibility. RDIAS is Registered Drop In Auto Sear (full auto --> low shelf). A RDIAS, which can be found for much less than an registered M-16 or other AR-15 compatible registered select fire lower receiver. Google is your friend. Info stolen from AR15 dot com

***just because the same forging (CMT, LMT, etc.) is used means not much, there can be substantial differences in level of finish (removing machine marks, etc) + external finish (anodizing, etc.) quality, per finished product manufacturer. Also, different builders may require different specifications, ie., some CMT (name used for illustration purposes only) may be mil-spec, some may have different non-mil dimensions.
 
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This link provided me with the most information when I was looking at which lower to go with.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/3...k_beware__MMS__CMT__LAR__LMT_compared___.html

Most billet lowers will be substantially more price wise, then a forged lower (2-4x as much). While the finished product on a billet is usually consistently nicer a forged lower can come very close in terms of fit an finish if the blanks were finished by a quality manufacturer.

I personally went with an Armalite lower after all the research I did. Other contributing factors were availability and price.

Some of the manufacturers you listed are rare to see, or not even in Canada.
 
Cadex. Canadian made billet 7075 T6. We have them in stock.

Knights Armament. We don't sell stripped lowers, only complete. Ambi bolt catch and mag release with push button sling cup built into the lower. Usually we are sold out before they land.

Daniel Defense doesn't sell lowers by themselves at this time.
 
Lowers fall into 2 broad categories - billet and forged, the majority are forged. Practically speaking, there's no strength difference between the two - I believe both "made in Canada" lowers that you list are billet. Beyond that, unless you're building a specific gun, for a specific reason, or you want a "name" to be tacticool there's no real function difference in lowers. Aero Precision lowers are as good as any, and very affordable, in fact with the exception of minor features and some finish issues on the Norc, the most expensive and the least expensive will do the same job. If you're worried about downstream value (resale) one franken 15 is worth as much as the next - it tends to be the barrel that affects resale, if at all.
 
I think my point is mainly to figure out what SPECIFIC FEATURES they have or can use, or cannot have or use. Also, I know there will be lots of opinion rather than empirical data, on things like fit & finish, certain functions, etc. ('Tiers'). I still want the input, if you will take the time to give it.

I don't care if they're not available stripped, finished, or other than as a complete rifle - I still want to know any potential features and benefits.

Farmboy's information about the Knight's is precisely the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

Top chart reformatted and updated. tainted_demon, thanks for the excellent link.
 
Noveske Gen 2 lowers are one of the only Forged 7075 lowers that feature a one piece trigger guard and a flared magwell. Features more commonly found on billet receivers. The best of both worlds in my opinion...

Vltor's lower is a mil spec 7075 forging but features a custom machined oversized mag release. The lower also features magwell grip enhancing cuts.
 
2 more that are available stripped in canada regularly

Palmeto State Armorey Lowers: Old AP serials made by Aero Precision newer LW serials made by LWSchneider
Spikes Tactical: Wide range of serials made by different companys, both low shelf and high shelf
 
A definition here that might be of assistance - High Shelf - the area behind the trigger group is filled in above the level of the trigger pocket floor, this is the most common configuration and works just fine for all legal applications. Low Shelf - the area behind the trigger group is machined level with the trigger group pocket, and is the same width front to back - popular in the US with agencies and individuals who have registered drop in auto sears. The DAS is a device that in combination with a full auto parts kit (minus auto sear) allows an AR to operate as a selective fire system. Like the FA BCG, full face M16 hammer, and other full auto components - minus the sear, some guys want them just because they can.
 
Cool thread. What about Dlask lowers? And while pretty much made of unobtainium, you could probably file Diemaco/Colt Canada lowers as made in canada and to Colt Defence specs. They did make lowers as part of the 6520 line AR15a2's sent to Colt Defence for US police contracts. Those are now sold to the public in the US as surplus.
 
enefgee said:
A definition here that might be of assistance - High Shelf - the area behind the trigger group is filled in above the level of the trigger pocket floor, this is the most common configuration and works just fine for all legal applications. Low Shelf - the area behind the trigger group is machined level with the trigger group pocket, and is the same width front to back - popular in the US with agencies and individuals who have registered drop in auto sears. The DAS is a device that in combination with a full auto parts kit (minus auto sear) allows an AR to operate as a selective fire system. Like the FA BCG, full face M16 hammer, and other full auto components - minus the sear, some guys want them just because they can.
Click to expand...

Excellent info, thank you - I had done the reading but you filled in some blanks for me.

Forgot about Dlask, will add.
 
enefgee said:
A definition here that might be of assistance - High Shelf - the area behind the trigger group is filled in above the level of the trigger pocket floor, this is the most common configuration and works just fine for all legal applications. Low Shelf - the area behind the trigger group is machined level with the trigger group pocket, and is the same width front to back - popular in the US with agencies and individuals who have registered drop in auto sears. The DAS is a device that in combination with a full auto parts kit (minus auto sear) allows an AR to operate as a selective fire system. Like the FA BCG, full face M16 hammer, and other full auto components - minus the sear, some guys want them just because they can.
Click to expand...

This is good info. Thanks

fenceline said:
Blue Line.
Click to expand...

Blue Line lowers are the same forgings Dlask uses
Colt Canada also used CMT at one time.
 
I just wanted to separate the Canadian :canadaFlag: out (even if they might be importing a forging but doing their own machining and finishing). All the rest are imports :D

Are there H&K lowers in Canada? I know some already in the list apparently aren't around, I'm not looking to add names just for the sake of adding names. I'd like to know more of the features of the ones that are generally accessible to us. And, in particular, (but not exclusively) available as lowers (even second hand) for someone interested in building up their own.

And, thank you for your earlier note on Noveske and Vltor.
 
Redhouse said:
I just wanted to separate the Canadian out. All the rest are imports :D

Are there H&K lowers in Canada? I know some already in the list apparently aren't around, I'm not looking to add names just for the sake of adding names. I'd like to know more of the features of the ones that are generally accessible to us.
Click to expand...

I guess,


But you never know what can happen, look how much has changed in the last 3 years, we would've been saying the same thing about Noveske and Vltor..

:cheers:
 
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