AR15 Reloading Dies

Glenfilthie

Glenfilthie

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I have just heard about these but have never seen them before. Apparently these dies are made expressly for the .223 autoloader and beyond that I know nothing about them.

Do any of you AR15 geeks know anything about these or maybe have some yourself? What is the difference between them and standard 223 dies? Are they worth buying?

I handload only for accuracy, moreso than reliability. For my chit house turkey shooting a jam or failure to feed is nothing more than a minor embarassment and will not cost me any trophies or my filthy hide as it would with a competitor or a serviceman.

Your two cents is greatly appreciated.
 
Small base dies are needed for the AR15, specially if you use once fired brass and brass fired by other for your reload. This remove one potential problem with the brass sizing by bringing the specs on the minimum side.

I use Redding competition dies set. If you just want to plink - a RCBS ( or any other good brand ) small base sizer with regular seating die will do. If you want to get the best accuracy out of you AR - shoot long range and use heavy bullet * 75*80 and even 90 grains bullet - I recommend the Redding small base bushing sizing die. You can select the amount of neck sizing ( bullet pull / tension - up to a point) by changing the bushing.

For a few more buck - you have removed one variable that cause a lot of trouble. In my book - they are worth every penny.
 
One die that is great for AR reloading is the new Hornady Universal Decapping Die (Part No.050085). I just got one delivered from Hornady today & put it right to work decapping Lake City crimped primer .223 . This brass has proven extremely difficult for me in the past but with the Hornady die was almost effortless. I also used the new Hornady One Shot Case Sizing Wax which worked great as well. No stuck cases & very few lube dents. These new products will certainly make bulk processing .223 a whole lot easier.
 
beltfed said:
I've no problems with full length dies. If they are adjusted properly, they work just fine.
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This is typical of CGN..:yingyang: your die set might be on the tight side of tolerances and your gun chamber on the large size. It may or may not work.
Good that it work for you but this is not the die to use for reliability.

You do not want to end up with a 1000 rounds of ammo that jams even once in a while or worse all the time.

The sizing die adjustment have nothing to do with this. No matter how you adjust the sizing die - you cannot get the same effect the small base die offer. Your comment make think you do not even know what SB die do to brass. :cool:

The Small Base dies is manufactured to size the brass to minimum specifications. Those of you that shoot semi auto pistol know how the base expand and bulge at the base of their brass.

I have used regular die on more than a dozen AR and no - they do not produce the same reliability than the Small base offer.

Buy the right sizing die right away - the Small base die - and be done with that issue. Buy the right tool to do the job right.
 
I'm well aware of the function of the small base die, and believe it works the brass too much.
If someone is concerned about proper chambering, I'd recommend using a chamber gauge to check all of their ammo (as I do).
I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds of .223 for my autos, and have yet to encounter a problem with F.L. dies, and I have sets from four different manufacturers.

Ymmv.
 
I have a SB die. Got it when I bought a Mini-14 thirty years ago. Found it to be unnecessary. It also makes the cases look almost as if they were belted. Must be a really small base die. Makes me wonder if the cases could fail in a critical area because of excessive working of the brass.
I load for two different AR setups. One barrel has a standard .223 chamber, cut it myself. The other has a standard SP1 barrel, with whatever chamber Colt used. Neither needs a SB die.
Have FL dies of two different makes, RCBS and Lyman. It doesn't matter which I use, the rounds chamber just fine.
In any autoloader, it is important that rounds chamber freely. There are a variety of reasons that could affect ease of feeding and chambering, case sizing is one of them.
A SB die may be a solution to a non-existant problem.
If there is an incompatibility between cases sized in a standard FL die, and a given rifle, then a SB die may be needed.
 
This is a GUESS so don't rely on this information.

But I am GUESSING that a FL .223 die, run in to a 5.56 chamber, would be similar to running a small base die.

In fact looking at the dimensions for chamber reamers, I notice that Clymer gives 5.56 base dimension as 0.3816", and .223 as 0.3794".

PTG Match .223 has a base dimension of 0.3779".

However, JGS and PTG 5.56 reamers are 0.3804" and 0.3803" respectively.

PTG's .223 reamer has a base dimension of 0.3804"...only one ten-thou larger than their 5.56 reamer!

But in general it appears that a 5.56 chamber will have a base dimension approximately 2 thou larger than a .223 chamber.

Therefore, I believe my guess is correct...running a full-length .223 die on a gun with an actual 5.56 chamber, not just a Bushmaster "maybe 5.56, maybe .223" chamber, should produce a pretty reliable base sizing.

But I do not reload for ARs and this is just a guess based on the base!

Looking at the dimensions of the various reamers nothing is jumping out at me to say there is any reason a .223 die should produce a cartridge with any difficulty chambering with any other dimension, but I am just scanning it. Base to shoulder dimension seems fine, shoulder angle seems fine...I believe there are no issues.
 
tiriaq said:
I have a SB die. Got it when I bought a Mini-14 thirty years ago. Found it to be unnecessary. It also makes the cases look almost as if they were belted. Must be a really small base die. Makes me wonder if the cases could fail in a critical area because of excessive working of the brass.
I load for two different AR setups. One barrel has a standard .223 chamber, cut it myself. The other has a standard SP1 barrel, with whatever chamber Colt used. Neither needs a SB die.
Have FL dies of two different makes, RCBS and Lyman. It doesn't matter which I use, the rounds chamber just fine.
In any autoloader, it is important that rounds chamber freely. There are a variety of reasons that could affect ease of feeding and chambering, case sizing is one of them.
A SB die may be a solution to a non-existant problem.
If there is an incompatibility between cases sized in a standard FL die, and a given rifle, then a SB die may be needed.
Click to expand...

Must be something wrong with your SB sizer because I cannot see the difference between the brass used with standard sizer and the SB sized brass by eyeballing - we are talking .001 or .0015 here on Redding die used for reference ! Never seen a SB sizer do a belt on good brass. Seen it on bulged case that were beyond salvation to start with and if I had a standard sizer - might have done the same thing. The SB sizer go lower on the head ( this is the major difference ) than a Hornady die to name this brand among others because the mouth is square and less flared than standard sizer. Note that commercial reloader roll size ALL their brass and this process is doing the same job than Small Base sizer but a lot faster.

I also reloaded 10 of thousands of .223 used in 12 different AR ( and .308 in M14 and lately .308 AR) and found that they do improve reliability. I am using exclusively Redding SB die now on my ARs and have been doing so on different match barreled M14 for the last 30 years.

SB dies a better mousetrap for AR than the standard die. If you believe that this is a ''solution to a non-existant problem'' read above and you will see that people do have problem. If you spend time at the range were many AR are used with reload, you will SEE the problem. Note also that I know of no manufacturer that market product that do not sell..take into consideration that short of custom sizer -made by hand with the same cutter used for chambering - the best competition die set offer SB sizer or provide their sizer already in the SB configuration and tolerances. It cured problems for me and will never go back to standard sizer for my semi auto rifles. Call than Insurance..

If somebody have no die - he is better off buying a SB set right away for his AR than find out that the standard set do not work for him. This is my point.

Beltfed...you know like me that full autos do not have match chamber or even tight chamber. They must handle a lot of firing , carbon - crud and keep on working so - might not be the best reference. Brass fired in full auto might be the best candidate for SB dies :D
 
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Janeau said:
If somebody have no die - he is better off buying a SB set right away for his AR than find out that the standard set do not work for him. This is my point.
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Again, I can only point to my experience with F.L. dies. They work just fine, and I think S.B. dies work the brass too much. I would work it around the other way, starting with F.L. and going to S.B. as a last resort. Just my opinion.



Janeau said:
Beltfed...you know like me that full autos do not have match chamber or even tight chamber. They must handle a lot of firing , carbon - crud and keep on working so - might not be the best reference. Brass fired in full auto might be the best candidate for SB dies :D
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While chambers may vary ever so slightly, ammunition be it 5.56 or .223 is the same dimensionally. If someone is using a F.L. die, and ensuring their ammunition fits in a .223 chamber gauge, it's going to work. No one in their right mind would run a match-cut, tight chamber that wouldn't operate with the dimensions of the round they are loading for and still expect it to run in a semi auto.

My current crop of .223/5.56 chambered auto guns include a few ARs, FS2000, Sig PE-90s & H&K SL8. Some are 5.56 and some are .223/.223 wilde and all run just fine with F.L. sizing.

As a side note, a couple of years ago, I banged out some ammo for a match and had all sorts of problems with chambering in my Service Rifle AR. I failed to chamber check them, and it turned out that the set screw had backed out of the die locking nut, and the die had backed out of the press, so the brass wasn't being sized properly. In the AR it was having intermitant issues, and the Sigs were eating it just fine - the rounds were being final sized as they chambered.
 
"...moreso than reliability..." Ammo is not much good if isn't reliable.
"...Small base dies are needed for the AR15..." Lots of ammo was loaded using FL dies long before there was such a thing as small base dies.
 
misanthropist said:
This is a GUESS so don't rely on this information.

But I am GUESSING that a FL .223 die, run in to a 5.56 chamber, would be similar to running a small base die.

In fact looking at the dimensions for chamber reamers, I notice that Clymer gives 5.56 base dimension as 0.3816", and .223 as 0.3794".

PTG Match .223 has a base dimension of 0.3779".

However, JGS and PTG 5.56 reamers are 0.3804" and 0.3803" respectively.

PTG's .223 reamer has a base dimension of 0.3804"...only one ten-thou larger than their 5.56 reamer!

But in general it appears that a 5.56 chamber will have a base dimension approximately 2 thou larger than a .223 chamber.

Therefore, I believe my guess is correct...running a full-length .223 die on a gun with an actual 5.56 chamber, not just a Bushmaster "maybe 5.56, maybe .223" chamber, should produce a pretty reliable base sizing.

But I do not reload for ARs and this is just a guess based on the base!

Looking at the dimensions of the various reamers nothing is jumping out at me to say there is any reason a .223 die should produce a cartridge with any difficulty chambering with any other dimension, but I am just scanning it. Base to shoulder dimension seems fine, shoulder angle seems fine...I believe there are no issues.
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I was thinking this too. My uppers have LMT barrels so are 5.56 NATO chambered. I guess I'll just have to reload some .223 with my Dillon dies and see what happens.
 
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