AR15 - which is the best?

pazzo said:
thanks for the replies people!! can anybody identify these models??
AR15-4.jpg
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It's an Olympic Arms Plinker Plus with a collapsing stock.
 
All of those are A1 uppers. Meaning that the carry handle is forged into the upper vs a A2 which is a flat top or an A3 which is a flat top with a removable carry handle. Those are all carbine length gas systems and most of them are 16" barrels. The stocks are the CAR 4 position stocks and the M4 6 position stocks. (M4 in first picture, CAR in second) I would go with a A2 because it is much more versatile when it comes to your choice of optics.
 
Like scotty said, they are all A1 style uppers. If that's the kind of rifle that you are going for than you are going to have to look at used rifles. Closest thing to the last two pictured would be a Colt SP1 carbine (look in the EE). Or you could build your own rifle using whatever configuration you wish and put an A1 style upper on top. Are you a lefty? If so than you're going to want a C7 style upper, it has the brass deflector so you don't get whacked in the face.

BTW scotty, A2 is an improved carry handle upper with better adjustments on the rear sight, not a flattop. A3 and A4 style are flattops, the latter will have the T markings.
 
Leg said:
BTW scotty, A2 is an improved carry handle upper with better adjustments on the rear sight, not a flattop. A3 and A4 style are flattops, the latter will have the T markings.
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My mistake, thanks for the correction.
 
Hi Blk and Gr Guru's, like pazzo I too am planning to join the Black rifle club. As I understand it seems the big 4 ( Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River ) all make quality rifles. Are they still all equal after a day of service condition shooting in the snow or dust ? How about after an extended patrol in a g-wagon bouncing along dirt trails ? btw this is my first post :) thanks for your wisdom
 
667 said:
I really hate it when people throw out the term "mil-spec"
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So do I, because why in God's name would you want something made to a Govt. specification for the lowest price?

Have any of you ever tried the trigger on a stock M16A1 or M16A2? OMG they're AWFUL.

And if you read the milspec accuracy requirements it's 5 MOA!!!

No thanks, I'll stick to guns made for commercial customers who piss and moan a lot.

Seriously folks, how many of you go to a posh restaurant and complain at not getting served MREs?

(Having said all that I'm sure the LMT rifles are really nice, but this is a pet peeve of mine).
 
pazzo said:
thanks for the replies people!! can anybody identify these models??
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Er, gun, gun, gun and another gun.

But seriously, the first one looks like a Bushmaster, because only Bushmaster AFAIK have made them with that upper and a pushpin.

The second one looks like a parts gun that someone has put together to look like an XM177E2.

The third one looks like an old Colt AR-15 Sporter carbine with new furniture.

And the fourth one is a Colt Model 653 carbine.
 
cybershooters said:
But seriously, the first one looks like a Bushmaster, because only Bushmaster AFAIK have made them with that upper and a pushpin.
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Colt, Diemaco, Bushmaster and DPMS have all made the so called C7 style upper.
 
cybershooters said:
So do I, because why in God's name would you want something made to a Govt. specification for the lowest price?
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Because I can? Why are Colts with 5 MOA pencil-thin barrels, chrome-lining that decreases accuracy, crappy, single-stage triggers and poor factory iron sights commanding prices of $2500+? People buy AR15's for other reasons than 3-gun ya know...
 
From M4Carbine
The things that are generally considered to be the qualities that make Colt more reliable are:

1) MPI of ALL bolts and barrels. Bushmaster used to claim this until they were outed as only testing a relative sample. If you don't know what MPI is, go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneti...cle_inspection

2) Real M4 feedramps. This means extending the feedramps down from the barrel deeper and actually into the upper receiver. This is not the same thing as cutting them in with a Dremel tool after assembly like RRA has been known to do. Upper receiver feed ramps are machined prior to hard anodizing, so as not to expose softer aluminum by "Dremeling" M4 ramps after anodizing.

3) Properly staked parts. Both the castle nut and the gas key should be staked in place after tightening. To date the only one I've seen do both right is Colt. The sad attempt some make at the gas key is truly laughable.

4) Pressure tested barrels. I would think this speaks for itself.

5) Proper 4150 barrel steel. Last time I checked almost nobody else made their barrels out of this higher grade steel.

6) Chrome lined bore and chamber. While some believe this has a negative affect on accuracy, I believe it allows the carbine to run longer when dirty, especially in the chamber. Chrome lining of the bore should extend barrel life. Chrome lining of the chamber should aid in extraction reliability.

7) Tru 5.56 chamber. There's .223, and there's 5.56. If you want to run surplus ammo you want 5.56.

The other things that stand out and make them more desireable, but not necessarily more reliable are:

1) F-height front sight base. The military M4 and A4 rifles have different front sight base heights. Aftermarket rear backup iron sights are made to work with the "F" front sight base on M4s. BM, RRA, and most others do not use the proper FSB. Stag claims to, but I know of at least 3 cases where it was marked "F" but not the correct height.

2) 1:7 barrel twist. This is only really noteworthy if you want to shoot the more effective heaiver 75 grain rounds. If you're just shooting XM193 or other 55 grain it's a non-issue.

3) Milspec receiver extensions. This is mostly a non-issue unless you're looking for for aftermarket stocks as some only come in the proper size.

4) Lifetime warranty. BM offers one year. Stag and S&W are supposed to be lifetime as well though.

5) Taper pins at the FSB. They just hold better and are less likely to walk loose. How do I know? Try pounding out a BM straight pin and then a Colt taper pin and get back to me.
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and some more illumination on the subject.

#2) Upper receiver feed ramps are machined prior to hard anodizing, so as not to expose softer aluminum by "Dremeling" M4 ramps after anodizing.

#5) I believe that Bravo Company will be using the proper MIL-B-11595E steel for their barrels.

#6) Chrome lining of the bore should extend barrel life. Chrome lining of the chamber should aid in extraction reliability.

#7) Beware of barrels marked 5.56x45 NATO that do not have a chamber within spec.
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and
According to Ken Hackathorn this weekend, Colt only makes about 7 parts in house. The rest of the parts are purchased from various manufacturers. Colt also has several assembling plants so the majority of Colt's are NOT built at the Colt factory.

Colt uses 4150-ORD. LMT, BCM & Sabre Defense use this same quality steel. Remember that there are 4 different types of 4150. Three of them are 11595 compliant.

LMT properly stakes their BCG's and castle nuts. BCM BCG's are also properly staked. Stag does stake their castle nuts.

S&W 15, 15A & 15T all use LMT BCG's (now). The majority of their parts are CMT. Because their BCG's are superior to Stag's (IMHO), this makes them a more reliable AR and should be viewed as on up on Stag.
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Chrome lined barrels reduce accuracy?

Even if this is true, I don't think I'd ever buy a rifle without a chrome lined barrel. Chrome lining makes cleaning so much faster and easier.
 
Yes Sabre any of the mentioned brands can likely take bouncing around in a G Wagon. I would take either of my Armalite or Bushy on a hunting trip in a G wagen if I could afford to do so. I'm too old to deploy :evil:

Cancer, remember that when a match grade barrel is machined, it is made into match dimensions and quality by lapping the cut / broached/ hammer forged interior. Once you chrome line said steel, then the application of the chrome will not have a guarantee that the chrome surface will be as smooth as a lapped match barrel. What you apply for battle conditions (wet, muddy, dirty, damp) will come at a cost/compromise to match accuracy, which one may likely not need on a two way range.

Like I said, I ain't destined for a 2 way range like KevinB or Reaper have operated in, so match barrels (smoother and lapped) with match chambers (tighter dimensions) can work for me. Now, truth be told, I am competing with a 16" Armalite (read: Wilson) mid length barrel that IS Chrome Lined :p and I don't have to clean it as often, but I am sacrificing a bit of accuracy. Besides, frankly, I cannot hold it that well to see how much accuracy is being sacrificed. So it's a moot point this argument of accuracy vs. durability. :)

The bottom line: GET out and shoot your Black / green boomsticks at my matches !! :evil:

Barney
 
I don't see a reason why you will want a Lr300. it was interesting.....like 7 years ago! It is the same gas system with the recoil spring wrapped around an extended gas tube, so that a folding stock can be added. Long time ago the word is that they did not use the proper material for the spring and it would go south after some firing.

In 2007, there are better things to buy.
 
koalorka said:
Because I can? Why are Colts with 5 MOA pencil-thin barrels, chrome-lining that decreases accuracy, crappy, single-stage triggers and poor factory iron sights commanding prices of $2500+? People buy AR15's for other reasons than 3-gun ya know...
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That's not Govt. specification. Try a stock model 603 and get back to me.
 
thanks for your input Hungry, now all I have to do is balance my internal drive to get the most value/quality for my dollar, if only money was no object like Pazzo (jealous) .

Are KAC's available in Canada ? http://www.knightarmco.com/sr_15_16.html if so who carries them? I am thinking the price may push it out of reach, but i can always dream...

I also came across an article while searching for info on KevinB's 16" Middy KAC gun. Coincidence I think not. ;)
http://nightoperations.com/Doc/Infantry-Rifle-Carbine1.pdf
 
cancer said:
Chrome lined barrels reduce accuracy?

Even if this is true, I don't think I'd ever buy a rifle without a chrome lined barrel. Chrome lining makes cleaning so much faster and easier.
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They do because chrome-lining varies in thickness, even the best chrome-lined barrels have variations. You can get lucky and get one that is really good, but on the average they don't compare as well to a well-made non-lined barrel.

If you want easy cleaning and top-end performance the best idea is a stainless steel barrel.

Remember that chrome-lining a .22 barrel was invented during the Vietnam War, not many companies make chrome-lined barrels in that calibre. It's quite a tricky operation because the chrome-lining has to be done to extremely tight tolerances because the bore size is so small.

I'm trying in a roundabout way to say you should buy Colt barrels if you want them chrome-lined, but I know if I say that someone will tell me how wonderful their non-Colt barrel is.
 
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