AR15's and hollowpoints

If hollow-point ammo in an AR-15 is a no-go, I think somebody better send out a memo to all the guys who compete in NRA high-power competition. Last time I checked, they shot nothing but Sierra Matchkings, Bergers, and assorted VLD HP bullet designs... And for that matter, they're not big on crimping either, choosing to get by with about 0.003" of neck tension.

With the USAMU (U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit) having put more lead downrange in competitive practice using HP bullets in M-16's than gets fired in a typical Latin American ground war, one would think that they probably know what they're doing...
 
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Neo said:
If hollow-point ammo in an AR-15 is a no-go, I think somebody better send out a memo to all the guys who compete in NRA high-power competition. Last time I checked, they shot nothing but Sierra Matchkings, Bergers, and assorted VLD HP bullet designs... And for that matter, they're not big on crimping either, choosing to get by with about 0.003" of neck tension.
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ok now you lost me.....ok to use or not guys? 50 grain HP american eagle. in my AR15?
 
Neo said:
If hollow-point ammo in an AR-15 is a no-go, I think somebody better send out a memo to all the guys who compete in NRA high-power competition.
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I think everyone is saying that hollow point ammo is fine, just not ammo with weak or no crimp on the bullets, which some of the commonly available HP ammo available in Canada is, (ie, Win White Box 45gn JHP at Walmart.).
 
jdman said:
ok now you lost me.....ok to use or not guys? 50 grain HP american eagle. in my AR15?
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It's fine, and accurate. Shoot it.

To see what we're talking about, Look around where the bullet meets the case, you'll notice the bullet has a cannalure (the indented band around the bullet) and the brass is crimped around that cannalure, you'll notice it as a pattern around the case mouth. With an autoloader, you want both if possible, but definitely at least a solid crimp.

My only issue with the AE 50gn flat base, hollow point ammo is they crimped the primers too, and I hate that for reloading, but is otherwise, not a bad thing.

WWB 45gn ammo has a VERY weak crimp if at all. This may causes a misfeeds, as the bullet may move inwards upon hitting the ramps (and M4 ramps, being steeper that rifle ramps, will if anything exaggerate this problem). If this doesn't jam the action allowing you to see what has happened, the cartridge may wind up in the chamber with the bullet setback into the casing, on ignition there will be a pressure spike which could, and has, caused ka-booms.
 
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dangertree said:
It's fine, and accurate. Shoot it.

To know what we're talking about, Look around where the bullet meets the case, you'll notice the bullet has a cannalure (the indented band around the bullet) and the brass is crimped around the bullet, you'll notice it as a pattern around the case mouth.

My only issue with this ammo is they crimped the primers too, and I hate that for reloading, but is otherwise, not a bad thing.
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ahh i see, so i cannot reload this ammo? is all of the .223 american eagle primer crimped? or just these specific HP's?
 
jdman said:
ahh i see, so i cannot reload this ammo? is all of the .223 american eagle primer crimped? or just these specific HP's?
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You can reload them. But if the primers are crimped you'll need to remove the crimp first, not a problem, just an extra stage in the reloading process. If you don't, the new primers will be crushed while trying to fit them. I think all the current AE 223 ammo is using crimped primers, but as usual, I could be wrong.
 
All of my American Eagle brass has crimped primer pockets just like the 5.56 Lake City Brass I got. For now I use winchester brass for my reloads.

On a side note the Win Clean .45 Brass also has crimped primer pockets :(
 
dangertree said:
You can reload them. But if the primers are crimped you'll need to remove the crimp first, not a problem, just an extra stage in the reloading process. If you don't, the new primers will be crushed while trying to fit them. I think all the current AE 223 ammo is using crimped primers, but as usual, I could be wrong.
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hey danger how do you remove the crimp? i am a super nEWB when it comes to reloading, and this is the calibre i am going to learn how to load on. very helpful thus far thanks! ok paul, i have some mixed once fired brass comming. what are some common brands that are crimped primers, aka put aside to do later.... once the brass gets here i will let you know what kinds i have. is there anyway to tell if they are/arent crimped primers, like can you clearly see it?
 
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I've used the 45 grain WW ammo, and had the same problems with rounds getting stuffed back into the case.

The issue with them is two-fold. Part is the crimp (or lack thereof) and the other is the size of the tip of the round...the hollowpoint is a hex-shaped star with some spots that can catch on stuff. Add those two together, and you have a bad combo.

What I ended up doing with the 3 boxes I had to dispose of was single loading them by pointing the muzzle down about 45 degrees, hitting the bolt-catch to let the bolt go forward on an empty mag and close the chamber on the round (potential for slam fire, yes I know) fire the round downrange, let the bolt lock open on the empty mag, and repeat. Painfully slow way to dispose of 150 rounds.

I've used 69 grain HPBT's and have some 77's hanging about, and there isn't an issue with them, mostly because their open tip is much smaller and smoother, and does not tend to bung-up on the feed-ramp.

Something I need to test someday (soon) is how much seated bullet runout there is after chambering a non-crimped 5.56 round.

I've tested a batch of 50 rounds of un-crimped ammo (dummy) to see how much they'd get pushed back into the case (setback) from being cycled into the action of an AR.

I measured and numbered each round initially, and after each cycle I measured the round again. I ran each round through the magazine 3 times. Of 50 rounds, the results were that after the first cycle no rounds were setback. After the 2nd cycle, no rounds were setback. After the 3rd cycle, 3 rounds were setback by .001" each.

I'd like to re-do that test again, but with a runout gauge to test how much runout is affected.

NS
 
Finding out new things every time I browse this thread. So it sounds like its the quality of crimping AND the style of tip on the hollowpoint.

To make this thread truly productive here, can anyone post up brands/weights/styles of cartridges that have worked 100%? Meaning that you have shot >=100 without failure to feed.

State the grain, the type (BTHP, HP etc) and the brand if you can.

this is great info guys, thank you!
 
I've had this happen once when trying my AR-15 in the store with Remington UMC. I didn't get to clean it before hand. In any case I had a couple of feeding issues as well. Once I got the riflee home and cleaned it up O had no further issues with the ammo I had left over.
 
bbuffett said:
If you crimp the WWB 45gr with a Lee factory crimp should this not solve the setback problem?

Thanks
bbuffett
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Theoretically, yes. But the whole point of buying manuf ammo is so that I don't have to crimp each round through the press, though I already do that for my 9mm and 308. you have to crimp, but you'd also have to play around with the setback distance, problem is, that you can't unseat the bullet to decrease the setback, marking the bullet, you can push it in and crimp though.
 
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nza said:
...............but you'd also have to play around with the setback distance, problem is, that you can't unseat the bullet to decrease the setback,...........
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If I may offer my thoughts, I belive you can decrease the setback distance.
RCBS makes an kinetic bullet puller, (looks like a hammer). On some of my reload when I was finding the proper deapth, and the early ones were to deep, I would put the cartridge in the chamber and just give it a light tap (the bullet would remain seated but would have moved forward, and then reseated with the deapth set properly.

If you hit it to hard, its not big deal. the "chamber" inside the hammer catches both the powder and the bullet. This tool is designed for dismanteling cartridges, and I have uses it successfuly for the above.

However, all the same reloading cautions apply. Tool looks like this:

bulletpuller.jpg


regards and all the best

AbH
 
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