AR180B vs. Sig Black Special

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DSC223

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I have no doubt that the question has been asked before. But has anyone ever considered which rifle would be best for precision shooting with a fixed price? As far as I can tell through my searching is no.
I now have the financial means to start a precision semi-auto in .223 and those are the 2 options I'm considering (if there is a better option I'm unaware of please enlighten me). I'd like to shoot 55gr. FMJs at distances around 300m and it has to be non-restricted.
Could a person build a more precise AR180B for the cost of a new Sig Black Special?
 
not sure if you can build a better 180b for under the price of a new black special, but have you considered the HK SL8?

People say it shoots just as well as the Sig and its cost is between the black special and the 180b. You can also convert it to legally use 10 round AR pistol mags.
 
The SIG is definitely the more accurate of the two. However, shooting 55gr FMJ commercial loads isn't exactly conducive to "precision" riflery. The HK is probably a better choice than the AR-180B, but none of them are designed to be true "precision" rifles. All of them can certainly be tweaked to give tighter groups, however, it might be helpful if you defined your concept of "precision," especially at 300M with 55gr FMJ. You may be much better off with a nice bolt gun set-up depending on your expectations and what you plan on shooting.
 
+1 on the .55grain FMJ bullets not being condusive to precision shooting. Epecially if you're looking at a SL8 as an option. Mine wouldn't shoot worth a sh!t when using .55grainers. It only liked heavier bullets.
 
AR-180B:
-10 round mags
-less expensive

Swiss Arms:
-Swiss
-The definition of reliable (after the AK)
-The most accurate of the two
-Can make the neighbors to the south very jealous
 
I thought twice about using the word "precision" in my question, but its a broad term so I think it's still applicable. Maybe I should have asked which of the two would produce superior accuracy with handloaded 55gr. FMJ's between 50 and 300m... because I'll be moving around to different distances.

Sig Black Special = $3000ish new??
Ar180B = $1100ish new?? (plus $1900 in upgrades)
 
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If you'll be handloading, there are far more accurate bullets to be used than a standard 55gr FMJ bullet. Some rifles will like lighter bullets, others heavier. You need to experiement to find the sweet spot for whichever rifle you opt for. None of the stock non-restricted "black" rifles available in Canada are out-of-the box sub-MOA rifles, although I've seen a number of SIG/Swiss Arms & a couple of HKs that were genuine MOA rifles with match grade ammo. I don't have as much experience with the AR-180B, but I do know that it doesn't offer the same potential accuracy as some of the others. That isn't to say its not a good rifle, it does offer some great service for a very reasonable price, but there are practical limitations you must take into account when asking a particular firearm type to perform. A new Savage or Remington heavy bbl/varmint bbl bolt gun will, in most circumstances, shoot rings around any of these semi-autos, even using 55gr FMJ.
 
I bought both, though I did buy the 180b first...

I have shot pretty darned close to MOA at 100m with the 180b with iron sites and am sure if I had any sort of optic I could do better (though not too much) easily. This is with 55gr bullets.
Like I said though, at 100m. 300 would be a completely different story I am sure.

buy a 700ltr or something like that for pure precision.

Swiss Arms is the better rifle though.

did any of that make sense? Too much port........
 
I really appreciate all the input guys, and until FraserJ20's post I was all for the Sig... But now I'm putting some more thought and research into this. I'm handloading the rounds for this rifle in order to save money and 55gr. FMJ's at $10-$12/100 are the way to go for projectiles. I'm sure a lot of people would say that the extra $10 per box of bullets is worth it for the increase in accuracy but I'm more interesting in seeing how much accuracy I can get with a setup that has limitations (ex. non-restricted, $3000 max expendature and 55gr. FMJ's).

I already have a 12FV haha, she's my accuracy-monger.

Has anyone heard any good remarks about the Target Mini 14?
 
I've looked at reviews of the Ruger Target Mini 14 and with the right ammo is seems to be a consistent sub MOA shooter at 100m. I would think that it is cheaper then the Sig and at least less "plastique" then the AR. It is a different kind of rifle then the others but it still meets the criteria... I'll be making some calls.
 
DSC223 said:
I thought twice about using the word "precision" in my question, but its a broad term so I think it's still applicable. Maybe I should have asked which of the two would produce superior accuracy with handloaded 55gr. FMJ's between 50 and 300m... because I'll be moving around to different distances.

Sig Black Special = $3000ish new??
Ar180B = $1100ish new?? (plus $1900 in upgrades)
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$2799 for the Black Special. I think Target Sports has a flat top target version in stock for that price.
 
UncleWalther said:
$2799 for the Black Special. I think Target Sports has a flat top target version in stock for that price.
Click to expand...

While I love Swiss rifles, the pure flattop target model has never appealed to me. One of the best things about these rifles are their really great iron sights. I can't imagine sacrificing them for a little more ease in mounting optics.
 
Your logic is faulty--if you are spending 3K on a rifle why piss around with 55gr fmj's--use a proper bullet, especially if you are hand loading for it.

44Bore
 
X-man said:
While I love Swiss rifles, the pure flattop target model has never appealed to me. One of the best things about these rifles are their really great iron sights. I can't imagine sacrificing them for a little more ease in mounting optics.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on that. Besides, the B&T top rail is now only $152 from Wolverine Supplies.
 
44Bore said:
Your logic is faulty--if you are spending 3K on a rifle why piss around with 55gr fmj's--use a proper bullet, especially if you are hand loading for it.

44Bore
Click to expand...

Logic is in the eye of the logician, Gloria Steinem said that, and I believe it is true. I'd rather shoot a rifle more often then more accurately as long as the cheaper ammunition meets my criteria for accuracy. I can always load with a larger bullet if I want better performance.

I checked target sports, they have them listed for $2999 now :(
 
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