Are in-lines muzzleloaders??

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Skinny 1950

Skinny 1950

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I just got two Lee molds in the mail for .36 and .44 1851 Colt repro's and with the instructions came an advertisement for Muzzleloader Magazine. The front page has this printed: "No in-lines,no sabots,no copper-jacketed bullets. Just good,old-fashioned fun with real muzzleloaders.Now the question I have is what is it about in-lines that make them different from real muzzleloaders???:confused:
 
That magazine is for traditional muzzle loading enthiusiats. The traditionalists don't appreciate the modern world fiddling with their toys and most of them basically despise modern muzzleloaders.
 
I am not worried about it I just don't know what an in-line is and what is so non traditional about it. I have only been actively involved in BP for about 6 months and am somewhat familiar with revolvers and I'm thinking about getting a rifle or smoothbore longgun.
 
Skinny 1950 said:
I am not worried about it I just don't know what an in-line is and what is so non traditional about it. I have only been actively involved in BP for about 6 months and am somewhat familiar with revolvers and I'm thinking about getting a rifle or smoothbore longgun.
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Basically an in-line muzzle-loading rifle looks just like a VERY heavy-barrelled bolt-action rifle. The name 'in-line' come from the fact that opening the bolt enables the shooter to place a shotgun primer or percussion cap on the nipple thus revealed. Squozing the trigger releases a firing pin in the bolt, exactly like a conventional rifle, which fires off the percussion cap or shotgun primer.

A normal percussion rifle fires by the large off-set hammer falling on a percussion cap set on the side of the breech.

In-lines are a modern take on an old sport, and are more amenable to using modern scope sights since they look for all intents and purposes, just like a b/a rifle. BUT they ARE muzzle-loaders, often using pre-formed 50gr pellets of BP substitutes such has Pyrodex instead of loose powder, and firing saboted bullets instead of round ball and tradional forms of pure lead-only projectile.

They are held in great escathe by many traditionalists who view them as monstrosities. They have their place, but no in the company of traditional BP muzzleloading circles. The best of the on-line fora - www.muzzleloadingforum.com - bans even the mention of in-lines on its site.

tac
www.muzzleloadingforum.com
 
Skinny 1950 said:
I am not worried about it I just don't know what an in-line is and what is so non traditional about it.
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I think the two things that separate the inlines from traditional is that they shoot saboted elongate slugs (and therefore require a much faster rifling twist) and that they do not resemble any of the historical muzzle loading guns. With one or two minor exceptions the earliest bolt action guns were all cartridge rifles. To me at least a modern inline resembles a modern single shot bolt action rifle and relative to challenge in hunting, has several times the range of a traditional muzzle loader loaded with a patched roundball.
At least in BC, the magazine articles about hunting with inline rifles was responsible for ending the only muzzle loading only season that we had because the articles created the impression, real or imagined, that muzzle loaders were just as accurate and long range as modern cartridge rifles.

cheers mooncoon
 
Simply put, the traditional muzzleloading arms were built in a certain way because they represented the best technology of the time. Modern replicas are just that - replicas of the original style of arms. The modern in-line, on the other hand, are a strange step backwards. These are essentially built in the style of modern arms, but using the archaic loading methods (ie:loading from the muzzle). Truly, these do not belong in the same family as the originals and replicas. They really are modern, percussion non-cartridge arms, that just so happen to load from the muzzle. I certainly have no problem with modern technology moving forward, but these are more like revisionist history, looking at trying to work with the old ways through our current paradigms. As well, they are normally made purely to take advantage of earlier seasons without the extra challenge that comes with exposed hammers, flash-pans, and honest-to-goodness lead round balls.
 
Thanks for clearing that up for me....I thought that an in-line was loaded from the breach end with a bag of powder and a slug like an artillery piece.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how an inline rifle with a laser rangefinder and a 6-to-24-power scope, firing subcalibre saboted, elongated, jacketed projectiles and using precompressed charges of modern chemical propellants, can be termed a "Primitive Firearm"..... and an "as-issued" Snider-Enfield is considered TOO MODERN to shoot in the same hunting season.

To my way of thinking, somebody has his thinking-cap on backwards.
 
Modern inlines or older styles all have the basic attributes of a primitive weapon. Loading from the muzzle, one shot, and it takes a bit of time to reload. The advances in modern inlines simply provide better accuracy, much more consistent ignition and better knock down power.

Although I am not familiar with the rifle you mention if it is a cartridge firing breech loader it has a distinct advantage in that you can shoot multiple shots in a short span of time.

The blatant snobbery of the traditionalists against those who use modern versions is simply uncalled for and does nothing to support shooting sports. If you want to dress up like davy Crocket and hunt with a flintlock then have at it but if we run into each other and I am hunting with my inline I'd like to share a cup of coffee and swap hunting stories but if you want to look down your nose at me just keep on walking.
 
And when you toss in primer ignition and speedloaders, along with everything else mentioned, the inline has a VERY distinct advantage over any Black powder firearm made previously to the 1980s. It's modern technology, certainly, but the word to look at here is MODERN. And yet the people using these things guard their privileged special hunting seasons rigorously, saying that they are threatened by the technology of the 1860s.

The Snider-Enfield rifle came out in 1865 and was a breechloading conversion from an iron-barreled percussion rifle-musket. It shot a 530-grain Minie-style bullet ahead of 65 grains of RFG-2 Black powder and the muzzle velocity was low enough that you can WATCH the bullets fly with binoculars. The sights are primitive and the thin barrel precludes any possibility of laser range-finders, Picatinny rails, telescopic sights, flashlights or anything else. It is very nearly 5 feet long and it has a practical range of perhaps 100 yards, it takes very nearly as long to load for a second shot as does speedloader-equipped inline rifle.... and yet the elitist 'sportsmen' with their high-tech MODERN rifles and telescope sights insist that it be banished to the regular season in order that it compete against Remington 742 semi-autos and .257 Weatherby Magnums.

Perhaps there should be a little bit of 'give' both ways. We just MIGHT get a few more people interested in hunting and shooting.

Why not open the so-called "Muzzleloader" season to first-generation original Black-powder breechloading rifles? After all, originally it was CALLED the "BLACK POWDER" season in many jurisdicta..... and still is, in some.

An original Snider or Sharps or Remington Rolling-Block or a Werndl or a '71 Mauser can be a lot of fun... but they can't realistically compete against rifles 140 years newer.... and they should not be forced to, not when there is a season already in existence which caters to their design limitations.

What would the situation be if the inline guys were forced to compete against the modern rifles, in "Rifle" season? In two years there would not be an inline in the field. This is what has happened with the original first-generation breechloading Black powder rifles, for exactly the same reason.... while inline shooters are using every modern convenience and improvement (with the possible exception of satellite target acquisition... but give them a couple years) in competition against the guys who ARE doing it the traditional way.
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smellie said:
And when you toss in primer ignition and speedloaders, along with everything else mentioned, the inline has a VERY distinct advantage over any Black powder firearm made previously to the 1980s. It's modern technology, certainly, but the word to look at here is MODERN. And yet the people using these things guard their privileged special hunting seasons rigorously, saying that they are threatened by the technology of the 1860s.

The Snider-Enfield rifle came out in 1865 and was a breechloading conversion from an iron-barreled percussion rifle-musket. It shot a 530-grain Minie-style bullet ahead of 65 grains of RFG-2 Black powder and the muzzle velocity was low enough that you can WATCH the bullets fly with binoculars. The sights are primitive and the thin barrel precludes any possibility of laser range-finders, Picatinny rails, telescopic sights, flashlights or anything else. It is very nearly 5 feet long and it has a practical range of perhaps 100 yards, it takes very nearly as long to load for a second shot as does speedloader-equipped inline rifle.... and yet the elitist 'sportsmen' with their high-tech MODERN rifles and telescope sights insist that it be banished to the regular season in order that it compete against Remington 742 semi-autos and .257 Weatherby Magnums.

Perhaps there should be a little bit of 'give' both ways. We just MIGHT get a few more people interested in hunting and shooting.

Why not open the so-called "Muzzleloader" season to first-generation original Black-powder breechloading rifles? After all, originally it was CALLED the "BLACK POWDER" season in many jurisdicta..... and still is, in some.

An original Snider or Sharps or Remington Rolling-Block or a Werndl or a '71 Mauser can be a lot of fun... but they can't realistically compete against rifles 140 years newer.... and they should not be forced to, not when there is a season already in existence which caters to their design limitations.

What would the situation be if the inline guys were forced to compete against the modern rifles, in "Rifle" season? In two years there would not be an inline in the field. This is what has happened with the original first-generation breechloading Black powder rifles, for exactly the same reason.... while inline shooters are using every modern convenience and improvement (with the possible exception of satellite target acquisition... but give them a couple years) in competition against the guys who ARE doing it the traditional way.
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Talk to your local CO first. Mine had previously said that since it was originally a muzzleloader, and was single shot with limited range he would ok me to use the snider during our muzzleloading season. He also OK'd it for the shotguns/muzzleloaders only season. You'd want to confirm that with you own local CO first though.....

BTW. My dad now has his modern Savage smokeless muzzleloader shooting consistant 2" groups at 250 yards (22" of drop).
 
tactical870 said:
Talk to your local CO first. Mine had previously said that since it was originally a muzzleloader, and was single shot with limited range he would ok me to use the snider during our muzzleloading season. He also OK'd it for the shotguns/muzzleloaders only season. You'd want to confirm that with you own local CO first though.....

BTW. My dad now has his modern Savage smokeless muzzleloader shooting consistant 2" groups at 250 yards (22" of drop).
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The snider ammo was also originally loaded with shot as well as ball - I have several originall inssue packages of it.
FWIW In line muzzle loaders of of the 1800's were not built around bolt actons or brake actions.
Cat
 
In line muzzle loaders are not new,they have been out for around 100 years.Some "traditional" shooters just don't want to hear the truth.
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It's not about the ignition system, I am well aware of original in-lines in many forms, what we get touchy about is that these new machines don't use blackpowder, most often have scopes, most often use modern-style bullets, and yet still want to be considered "primitive" when it comes to special seasons. Like what happened to IPSC and cowboy action shooting, people are always trying to bend the rules or tunnel under or around them, in this case for the almighty "buck.". Those of us that want to be challenged in our hunting get a little grouchy when others tempt our fate by being so successful that the season might be threatened altogether. You would be far more challenged to use a Winchester 94 in .30-30 then using most of the modern in-lines.
 
I am well aware of original in-lines in many forms, what we get touchy about is that these new machines don't use blackpowder, most often have scopes, most often use modern-style bullets, and yet still want to be considered "primitive" when it comes to special seasons.
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And yet people often use pyrodex and sabot style bullets in traditionally styled guns.Who should get to decide what is proper for a muzzle loader season?
 
stubblejumper said:
And yet people often use pyrodex and sabot style bullets in traditionally styled guns.Who should get to decide what is proper for a muzzle loader season?
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Most traditional guns do not have a twist rate fast enough to stabilize saboted. A "fast twist" traditional gun is 1:48" vs most inlines are running around 1:26"
The inlines were originally developed in the US because it gave the owners a much longer range than a traditional gun loaded with round ball. That is probably the reason they are used in eastern Canada now.
I like the regulation that I think Washington has; if you have a black powder license, you may hunt in the early season for black powder but in the regular season you have to stick with the muzzle loader and cannot use a modern cartridge rifle.

cheers mooncoon
 
Considering that originally it was called BLACK POWDER SEASON in most places and now seems to be almost exclusively for the inline/scope/laser rangefinder crowd, I can only assume that some of you must be terrified of the idea of competing against an original first-generation breechloader with an effective range of 100 yards.

Or am I wrong in this?

I do hope so.

So, guys, how do you feel about allowing Remington Rolling-Blocks, Sniders and other old single-shots of the like into your season AS LONG AS they are firing Black-powder ammunition?

I'm not a hunter myself, but if we can use this to get more guys into the hobby, it might help. If they are old enough to hunt alone, they are ALSO old enough to vote.... and we need more votes on our side or else we're not going to have a hobby left.
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