I read an article by Fulton armories that states the norinco M14s bolt is made from a soft steel and they lose there headspacing.Is this true?Have they rectified the problem?Whats the differance between an M305 and the M14s.Does anyone have an M14 made by century arms with the norinco receiver.Dave.
Are the Norinco M14 bolts too soft?
- Thread starter Dave.S
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I read an article by Fulton armories that states the norinco M14s bolt is made from a soft steel and they lose there headspacing.Is this true?Have they rectified the problem?Whats the differance between an M305 and the M14s.Does anyone have an M14 made by century arms with the norinco receiver.Dave.
Dave.S said:
Go to this thread for more info: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37316&highlight=M305+bolt+hardness
"...fulton website only applies to..." And Fulton is in the business of building extremely expensive bubba'd rifles.
I wouldn't touch any rifle Century's monkeys have had their hands on. Century has no concept of QC. They assemble rifles out of parts bins and don't do anything to ensure the rifle is safe to shoot.
I wouldn't touch any rifle Century's monkeys have had their hands on. Century has no concept of QC. They assemble rifles out of parts bins and don't do anything to ensure the rifle is safe to shoot.
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whoa Sunray really?
have you had bad expieriance?
I "thought" fulton was supposed to be pretty good
fill me in
anyway from what i hear there is nothing wrong with norc rifles as the man says not in this century .....thats my hearsay though i just don't have one yet (i am thinking of 2)
have you had bad expieriance?
I "thought" fulton was supposed to be pretty good
fill me in
anyway from what i hear there is nothing wrong with norc rifles as the man says not in this century .....thats my hearsay though i just don't have one yet (i am thinking of 2)
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I think the proof is often in the pudding.
Since they have been for sale here for years, and we've yet to have a single thread discussing,
"Gee, my gun shot fine for the first couple a hundred rounds. Now i'm getting nothing but case head seperations........."
Since they have been for sale here for years, and we've yet to have a single thread discussing,
"Gee, my gun shot fine for the first couple a hundred rounds. Now i'm getting nothing but case head seperations........."
Fulton is very good. They are completely unrelated to Century Arms.
Fulton does, however, have a bias.
As has been metioned ad infinitum, none of Fulton's comments are current, the last 'rinco Mr. McKee saw was imported more than 14 years ago.
Fulton does, however, have a bias.
As has been metioned ad infinitum, none of Fulton's comments are current, the last 'rinco Mr. McKee saw was imported more than 14 years ago.
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- land of f-cktards
yeah " buy ours its better"
you are thinking about buying two? You had better do it quick, there are not many left. Marstar is rumored to be bringing in a bunch of Garands, and it would make good buissness sense to not start selling them until most, if not all of the m-305's are gone.
What's also worth noting is that, from what I have been told, all the parts for the rifles we're buying today were manufactured by norinco ~10-15 years ago and intended for the US market. But then the US ban came about and the chinese were unable to sell into their intended market. With the "explosion" of the canadian market, they've been assembling for us Canucks M305/M14Ss from these parts, however I would doubt if the parts are "newly" manufactured.
Walt and Clint (latter from Fulton) have put out an excellent book titled "The M14 Complete Assembly Guide" and after reading it it's evident that with respect to the M14/M1A, they know more than just a little and I'd pay heed to much of what they have to say. On the topic of chinese bolts and headspace/growing headspace, I've started some of my own research...I can't yet speak to "growing" headspace but I can tell you that every single factory condition, canadian imported M14S/M305 of recent vintage I've looked at (more than 15 separate guns) has effortlessly swallowed a SAAMI 1.638 FIELD REJECT headspace gauge. Clint has also made this observation, so regarding headspace the guns we've got today are not all that different from the ones of his experience. Just because folks are not experiencing case-head separation does not mean these rifles don't have very generous headspace.
Anyway, it's not my intent to use this thread to go into the details of my ongoing M305/M14 headspace investigation (details in this thread), I only bring it up as support for my perspective that people should be less quick to diss the Fulton folk and their observations/opinions with respect to the chinese M14/M1A clones. Once my custom headspace gauges arrive (discussed in the previously referenced thread) I'll be in a position to conduct a couple experiments vis-a-vis expanding headspace and will do so, posting results in the headspace thread.
Good luck!
Brobee
Walt and Clint (latter from Fulton) have put out an excellent book titled "The M14 Complete Assembly Guide" and after reading it it's evident that with respect to the M14/M1A, they know more than just a little and I'd pay heed to much of what they have to say. On the topic of chinese bolts and headspace/growing headspace, I've started some of my own research...I can't yet speak to "growing" headspace but I can tell you that every single factory condition, canadian imported M14S/M305 of recent vintage I've looked at (more than 15 separate guns) has effortlessly swallowed a SAAMI 1.638 FIELD REJECT headspace gauge. Clint has also made this observation, so regarding headspace the guns we've got today are not all that different from the ones of his experience. Just because folks are not experiencing case-head separation does not mean these rifles don't have very generous headspace.
Anyway, it's not my intent to use this thread to go into the details of my ongoing M305/M14 headspace investigation (details in this thread), I only bring it up as support for my perspective that people should be less quick to diss the Fulton folk and their observations/opinions with respect to the chinese M14/M1A clones. Once my custom headspace gauges arrive (discussed in the previously referenced thread) I'll be in a position to conduct a couple experiments vis-a-vis expanding headspace and will do so, posting results in the headspace thread.
Good luck!
Brobee
Brobee said:
I just picked up a M305 in brand-new condition, still in cosmo and plastic wrap from a fellow member. It was import marked CJA somethingsomething, which according to my reading would be imported into the US up until 1994.
The seller told me that he got this rifle brand new from (?)Smith Enterprises(?) a few weeks before and I have no reason to doubt his word. The finish on the rifle and parts indicates to me it has never been fired.
Therefore in all likelyhood this rifle would fit the description you propose.
I am a laymen when it comes to headspace adjustment - when the headspace is too great, what is the solution other than a new bolt?
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Proutfoo: Other than replacing it with a new bolt your only other option on a Norinco M14S/305 is a new barrel which would need to come short chambered. You would then ream out a little (frequently checking headspace with a "go" gauge) with a chamber reamer. This process is covered in some detail in Walt/Clint's book.
Just because these rifles have long headspace does not necessarily mean they are unsafe to shoot as how long the chamber has to get above SAMMI spec is subject to a fair amount of debate. While I ask the question in my headspace investigation thread, I'll ask it again here: How long is too long?
Here's my current take on the answer to the headspace question: Lots of folk have played with lots of these rifles and to my knowledge, no one has had a headspace related rifle-blowup, so they're probably safe. But if we're all playing in a world somewhere slightly beyond SAMMI pressure, how many pressure cycles are required before failure? Because I can't answer that question I'm kinda thinking for my rifles I'll run them somewhere shorter than 1.645 NATO FIELD REJECT spec.
Anyway, this is all beyond the scope of Dave S's original question regarding bolt hardness in the current norinco's so I'll shut my trap in this thread. For those interested in the related headspace question watch the other thread as I'll update it as I learn more.
Brobee
Just because these rifles have long headspace does not necessarily mean they are unsafe to shoot as how long the chamber has to get above SAMMI spec is subject to a fair amount of debate. While I ask the question in my headspace investigation thread, I'll ask it again here: How long is too long?
Here's my current take on the answer to the headspace question: Lots of folk have played with lots of these rifles and to my knowledge, no one has had a headspace related rifle-blowup, so they're probably safe. But if we're all playing in a world somewhere slightly beyond SAMMI pressure, how many pressure cycles are required before failure? Because I can't answer that question I'm kinda thinking for my rifles I'll run them somewhere shorter than 1.645 NATO FIELD REJECT spec.
Anyway, this is all beyond the scope of Dave S's original question regarding bolt hardness in the current norinco's so I'll shut my trap in this thread. For those interested in the related headspace question watch the other thread as I'll update it as I learn more.
Brobee
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Remember that the field reject gauge was used to check rifles in the hands of troops.When rifles were re-barreled in service, max headspace was set to the shorter "no-go" gauge-1.640-presumably to make allowances for wear to accumulate when back on issue.Ditto for the M1 Garand.
Our batch of Norinco M14's are superb compared to the bunch of Norcs from the early 90's. That's what Clint Mckee is talking about.
If he were to get his hands on one of the current Marstar imports, his tune would change. I've been a fan of his service and parts from the mid 80's until the early nineties when he refused to ship the Kanada because our Kustoms goofballs started messing with his shipments northbound.
Cheers,
Barney
If he were to get his hands on one of the current Marstar imports, his tune would change. I've been a fan of his service and parts from the mid 80's until the early nineties when he refused to ship the Kanada because our Kustoms goofballs started messing with his shipments northbound.
Cheers,
Barney
