Are the push feed M70's that bad

Unless you plan of feeding a round in to your chamber while lying on your back in a mud filled ditch while holding the rifle above you upside down CRF doesn't make much difference.

I notice that even after Winchester came or with the new CRF Model 70 they still used the push feed for their Varmint/target rifles. That would seem to indicate that Winchester thought the push feed was a bit more accurate.
 
762shooter said:
I notice that even after Winchester came or with the new CRF Model 70 they still used the push feed for their Varmint/target rifles. That would seem to indicate that Winchester thought the push feed was a bit more accurate.
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Or perhaps it was simply marketing towards the Mauser shooters.
 
I think that it is all marketing. Probably nothing to do with accuracy. They had a whole bunch of push feed actions left over that they needed to build into rifles (market) before they closed the factory.
 
762shooter said:
Unless you plan of feeding a round in to your chamber while lying on your back in a mud filled ditch while holding the rifle above you upside down CRF doesn't make much difference.
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the push feeds will load upside down..I have one. Try it it is not very hard.

The CRF helps to avoid a double feed situation when the action is short cycled...if your extractor does not grab the case and you cycle again you ram the next round into the previously chambered round.
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I have never had an issue with my XTRs! Most of my custom rifles are built on push feeds, and a few on pre 64s.
Most of my target stuff is push feed and they get shot alot at all different pressure.
I have never had a failure to extract over the many years with a bolt gun, only had issues with lever and auto rifles.
I am sure it wil happen now that i have said it.
 
I think the reason guys like O'Connor bagged on the post 64 is many of the Model 70's were used in the higher calibres on African hunts. The controlled round feed was considered the safest for dangerous game.

When Winchster changed it in 1964, it wasn't a welcomed change.

But Jack O'Connor did finally admit that the post 64 was a "pretty good rifle"........
 
topgun223 said:
People get hung up on the claw extractor. I had a push feed in 375 H&H that was a real tack driver. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
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the claw extractor isnt there for accuracy :)

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i like push-feed Remingtons (in fact the Remmy bolt on the right is from one i just bought yesterday. the other is a Ruger bolt), and i have yet to have one fail to extract on me, but theres just something comforting about the claw extractors.

aside from the highly unlikely scenarios like 'what if you are being charged by an enraged rhino and rolling on your back trying to reload?' :runaway: that CRF nuts always bring up, IMO CRF has a couple more realistic advantages that are rarely mentioned:
-if you accidentally double-stroke a CRF and the first round doesnt completely chamber, itll simply eject the first cartridge and chamber the second. if you are under stress and do this accidentally with a push feed, you are #%@$ed.
-if you are miles away from anyone up in the bush with only basic tools, which would you rather rely on? the massive non-rotating Mauser type claw extractor or the little tab extractor of a push feed? one failure to extract and your rifle is just a poor excuse for a club.

as for the model 70s, i dont think people are saying the non-Classics are 'crap' but more of a case of 'if im going to spend the money on a model 70, i may as well buy one of the 'Classic' or pre-64 models'.
 
I have a M70 CRF that will jam if you work the bolt hard. In fact I have actually had more jamming problems with CRF than push feeds when working the action extra hard and fast.

CRF is better but only if it is set up correctly, which is much more difficult to do than pushfeeds. The end result is that a factory CRF ends up being more likely to jam up than a factory PF. At least that is what I have found so far, and I do Test and TRY to get it to jam with my hand loads for every rifle I own.
 
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Hand made

From what I've read on the pre-64 CRF mod 70's they were at first poorly made on the factory floor and most had to be hand fitted to work properly. This meant each and every one was working perfectly coming from the factory. Fit and finish was better as the rifle was actually put together by skilled hands. This also cost mucho dollars. Winchester changed production methods (post-64) to make sure less hand fitting was required. To do this they changed from CRF to PF. This move saved Winchester from bankrupcy for the time being.

Both work well and if you have a good shooter there's no reason to get ride of it.
 
Republic of Alberta said:
I have a M70 CRF that will jam if you work the bolt hard. In fact I have actually had more jamming problems with CRF than push feeds when working the action extra hard and fast.
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by jamming do you mean failure to eject or failure to feed?

i had an ejection issue with one Ruger M77mkII. if you worked the bolt very fast, the ejector didnt have a chance to pop up into its slot completely and just rode over the lip of the case, and the case wasnt ejected. i fixed it by polishing and slightly radiusing the edges of the ejector blade - the factory ruger part was a touch rough on the surface that bears against the bolt. now there are no issues.
 
That particular M70 (short action 308) likes to feed 2 cases at the same time, you end up with 2rounds half way up and into the chamber. YOu have to work the action really hard to get it to do this. Seating the bullets out so they are nearly touching the mag box helps to keep it from stripping 2 at a time.

People NEVER talk about tuning their ammo to the gun as far as feeding is concerned but it is highly important on a rifle that may be used for life saving shots.. I have seen the same problem with a Ruger M77 in 7mag but only when the cartridges were loaded to Standard length, again, loading them longer helped and actually eliminated the problem. My 416 Rigby will jam up with round nose bullets and Norma brass. The round nose bullet does not ride up the loading ramp worth a ####, and causes the tiny shoulder on the soft Norma brass to buckle back and out making it impossible to chamber the round and difficult to extract if it lodges in the chamber tight enough.




Some rifles are great. I have a Win M70 CRF in 375 H&H it feeds empty cases better than most rifles will with loaded rounds....you got to love that tapered case.
 
While the Lion's share of my favorite hunting rifles are PF Remington 700's, I do have a few that are not. One of my favorite "other" rifles is my M70 PF chambered in 30-338 Mag. It is light, accurate and it does not beat me up because of ignorant stock design. I have shot about 15 Elk with it, and several moose. In those numbers are 4 shots taken on the far side of 450 yards. I have never had to shoot an animal twice with this rifle. I only wish that it had the magazine length of a 700. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Its nice to drop a round in the chamber and be able to close the bolt. CRF needs to be loaded from the magazine.

I don't have a problem with Push Feed winchesters.
 
All of my mausers close fully on a singly loaded round and eject it properly. If your CRF bolt gun does not do that it needs some extractor work (trim and polish the front edge of the extractor claw so it can pop over the rim).
 
I've had super success competing with push feed M70 Stealth boomsticks over the past 15 years. It's all good. Lots of gun magazines would have you believe that if you use a push feed, yer #### will fall off :evil:

:nest:

Peace be to journey

Barney
 
you can single-feed CRFs, the front edge of the extractor has a bevel to allow it to snap over the case rim - however ive heard that doing this regularly can damage the extractor over the long term.

either way its not much of an issue since the only thing i single feed like that are my varmint guns, and theyre all push-feed or single shots :)
 
In 1964 Winchester changed the action to push feed and for a couple of years put the new action in the worst designed stock ever foisted on man kind. We were "blessed' with a free float gap you could have dragged a cat through let alone a sheet of paper and they came with this neat plastic insert that was made to prevent warpage in storage. Then we saw impressed checkering where we previously had cut checkering. The barrels and actions were good as ever, although different. Some very knowledgeable people claim the steel in the PF action was superior to pre-64 70's. Later stock designs were much better but the rifle caught a stigma that endured because the first go around of them were incredibly ugly to many people. Bean counters at work. There was an interval when M70 push feeds were made very well.

I own both types and although I initially thought I would have a preference to the early model, I don't. I like both actions. The push feed model is actually a simpler rifle to install a new barrel on and they have performed very well in long range competition just as the old ones did.

Finally we had the final production of the last generation of them where quality control seemed a little slipshod by some accounts and that applied to both the push feeds and the CRF models as nearly as I can tell.

Let's hope the new plant does better by them.
 
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