Are there any dies out there that can be modified?

Noel

Noel

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Hi everyone,

as my title reveals my severe frugleness, I am curious if there are any dies out there which are not hardened so I can throw it in the lathe and do a little tweaking. Essentially what I need to do is get a 303 British die set and hog out the front end of it as though it is a wildcat 303 case, bored to 375 calibre and shortened to the same length as a 38-55 case.
Don't worry, it's okay if you think I'm nuts, I like to play on the lathe not to mention save having to get custom dies made. I won't be doing alot of loading for this gun so I am not worried about the dies wearing out any time soon
Thanks for your input!

Noel
 
Can you get a .375 carbide drill bit.. or something close?

Noel said:
Hi everyone,

as my title reveals my severe frugleness, I am curious if there are any dies out there which are not hardened so I can throw it in the lathe and do a little tweaking. Essentially what I need to do is get a 303 British die set and hog out the front end of it as though it is a wildcat 303 case, bored to 375 calibre and shortened to the same length as a 38-55 case.
Don't worry, it's okay if you think I'm nuts, I like to play on the lathe not to mention save having to get custom dies made. I won't be doing alot of loading for this gun so I am not worried about the dies wearing out any time soon
Thanks for your input!

Noel
Click to expand...

Noel, I opened up a .284 RCBS SB sizing die to .30/284 using a carbide drill bit... I forget the size now but it worked perfectly for my turned brass.

Maybe you could find one close to .375

Got to die spinning true in the headstock and mounted the drill in the tailstock. Went in thru the base of the die.
Die was hard, but the carbide harder. Finish in the neck was nice too.

NormB
 
Thanks NormB, if the carbide bit works, I will be able to make a set of dies and get my chamber in my rifle fixed for less than getting custome dies ordered alone!
Did you use any special type of coolant?
 
Noel said:
Thanks NormB, if the carbide bit works, I will be able to make a set of dies and get my chamber in my rifle fixed for less than getting custome dies ordered alone!
Did you use any special type of coolant?
Click to expand...

Noel... Just cutting oil.. The bit was brand new. I don't remember the speed, but fairly slow.

Norm
 
In the ads in the back of RELOADING magazine there is a company that has dies that are drilled but not CHAMBERED all regular threads . Or you could get any used DIE , smaller than what your making , HEAT it, let it cool then chamber it in any caliber you have a reamer for, polish it and use or reheat dump in oil , then polish again and use. You probably only need a sizing die , because you could cut off any die that has the right neck size and bullet diameter for seating or crimping. Also LEE ( www.leeprecision.com ) at the end of their rifle die section ( CUSTOM SERVICES) will make custom dies sets.
 
Thanks Bearman, I will keep this in mind too, if I can track down a carbide bit and find it doesn't want to drill, I will anneal the die and proceed.
The custom die is my last resort as I will have to do chamber casting and IIRC tie up another $100 or so US dollars to get them made and shipped.
Your wisdom is appreciated!

Cheers!
Noel
 
Most die sets are softer than you seem to think. If they weren't, you wouldn't be able to polish scratches out by using emery cloth on a split rod.

It should be easy to open those dies up for your project as suggested by starting with a drill that's close and then carve to finish.
 
Noel, are you buying a rifle that's already been chambered to this wildcat or do you have a reamer? If it's the former, send a fired case to a custom die maker. If it's that later, either buy a die blank or make it on your lathe and then ream it out. I don't know whether it's absolutely necessary to harden the dies or not. I wouldn't be surprised if you got a fair number of reloads out of a set of steel dies that weren't hardened before they finally wear out.

It's not hard to polish tool steels, but for changing dimensions you need to either grind it or anneal it and then machine. I honestly couldn't tell you how hard most reloading dies are but from my limited experience annealing, modifying and rehardening punches for a press I can tell you it is difficult do this and keep tolerances tight. Especially if you're doing it with a O/A torch. You'll often get warping and after you harden, you have to grind to final dimensions. I suspect this would be hard to do with reloading dies and it might be best left to someone with a furnace and does this for a living.
 
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Mike, here is my grief.
Enter rifle, one 1899 Savage lever action rifle, chambered for 303 savage.
Now, sprinkle on a worn out barrel and a young fellah determined to make it usable again.
Now stir in a cartridge that this barrel could be bored to that the rifle was origonally chambereed for back in the day (1907) with just a touch of forgetfullness that the 303 savage case head DIM. is .020" bigger than the 38-55 and bingo. Cook at the gunsmith's who is intrigued by the idea before he checks the cartridge specs for 4 to 6 hours and you comes a beautiful barrel with a rogue chamber. Back half is 303 savage, front half is 38-55.
I cannot simply blow out 303 savage brass as it is too short and too expensive in the long run to track down.

I want to take a 303 British reamer, and chase out the chamber, and in turn do the same to my 38-55 die. This should give me a cartridge that looks like the slightly larger 40-65, with a lovely smooth chamber, a very cheap, plentiful supply of brass and very easy case reforming.
Simply neck up to 375, and trim the case to 38-55 length. And of course turn the rim down a bit too.
If the reamer won't touch the die, I may elect to try to anneal the case. Or instead grab a cheap 303 British sizing die and the carbide drill bit 27/64" (iirc) and give that a try. I'm not sure if a reamer is the equivilent of carbide hardness.
I would take a guess that if I annealed the die and it distorted that it would not be so much as to make real bad resized brass but time may prove me wrong.

Cheers,
Noel
 
Okay, I think I get what you are trying to do.... BUT...

Noel said:
a beautiful barrel with a rogue chamber. Back half is 303 savage, front half is 38-55.
Noel
Click to expand...

Is this just a different way of saying that you've got a 38-55 with a sloppy chamber? Forgive my ignorance with the 1899 (i've never looked at one closely or while apart), but could you not just set your barrel back a few threads and rechamber for 38-55? This would be a heck of a lot simplier that fooling around with a 38-55/303 savage/brit wildcat.

I saw you were asking around for a 303 reamer in the gunsmithing forum, so if you are set on doing this with a 303 brit reamer and you've got to buy one - why not go all out and get a custom reamer made with the dimensions you draw up (with the correct 303 savage rim size) with the taper you'd like? If you've got tonnes of time - why don't you try making one yourself (do you have a mill as well as a lathe)? You could then make custom dies from the reamer you've either bought or made?
 
I asked my Smithy if we could cut the barrel back but he advised against it. The forearm would no longer fit, and there was something else I do not remember. I was also told to bore the rear end of the chamber and put a sleev in it. Again my smithy was reluctant. I would love to even put another barrel on it but good luck finding a half octogon 26" barrel chambered in
38-55 that is affordable or in any condition to use. I agree that it would be the best solution.
If I ordered a custom reamer with the lets say 303-38-55 hybrid shape, then I still have to source expensive brass, which is a fair bit too short for the
38-55 case length. The taper of the 303 brit chamber is just enough to remove the botched chamber and yet taper into the 38-55 profile at the neck of the case. There is easier monkey work with the brit chamber and the brass is 1/3 the cost.
We only have a lathe at the shop right now and I will be the first to admit making a reamer is out of my league. Run a reamer or a bit into a die I know I can handle but I am not set up for reamer production. If the reamer doesn't want to touch the die, I can still make one from a piece of 4140 round stock and be quite happy if it lasted 10 years before I had to make another. I'll be lucky if I fire off 50 or even 100 rounds with it a year so it should go for awhile.
Unless I can track down another barrel or get this one fixed this is the most cost effective fix I can figure.
Whoever inherits this thing when I go to the great big gig in the sky is going to hate me! :)
 
HI noel
if you want to have fun make your die (a to z )
whit SAE 4140 you dont have to heat treat
it will be good for nearly 7000+ rounds
have fun making chips:D
 
Eric, that is perfect, we have piles of 1 1/4" 4140 round stock short chunks left over from making long tie rod bolts . I feel alot more confident running a bit and the reamer into that than the dies, and it will give me some good practice until a friend shows up withour reamer.
Thanks!

And by the way, welcome to the board! :)
 
Ha Ha! I never thought of that. Do you think a hacksaw blade is hard enough to cut off a half inch of the bolt so there's room to cycle the 06 hull into the chamber.Hmmmmmmm, I'll get back to you on that one. :)
Mad dog had shown me a experimental reciever Savage made than never got to production. It was on an auction last winter, it was a full length action that could swallow any 30-06 clas length of cartridge.
I think it sold for $4K USD There were onlt two ever made IIRC and savage kept one for their museum or something. Talk about having a one of a kind rifle!
 
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