Are there any Milsurp competition matches?

BCRider

BCRider

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Location
The 'Wack, BC
I'm wondering if any clubs actually host a skills competition with the "classic" wartime bolt action and Garrand rifles. Something that brings into play aspects of sniping, rapid accuracy fire and finally just rapid fire from closer range. And where reloading "on the clock" is included in the stage of fire.

I guess I'm thinking of something that brings to bear the idea of shooting quickly but accurately while being timed and that involves movement, cover and reloading much like IPSC or IDPA or the 3 gun events but in this case soley with the classic long rifles.
 
i know parksville has a service rifle match but i think its benchrest only. what youre talking about would be fun and very challenging
 
There used to be one in Manitoba called the Battle of the Bulge. It was held at CFB Shilo in the winter (not a pleasant place at any time especially winter). Never been but I know one of the event organizers. It was a WW2 reenactment shoot where participants were encourage not only to shoot period firearms but wear period uniforms and equipment. Prizes were given and it was set up as a battle run (of sorts). It was a team event with a dinner and display including vehicles. Search the milsurp forum for the thread. It has cool pics
 
The EOHC videos show a lot of the sort of thing I was thinking about.

I'd like to see a a long course of fire starting with prone "sniping" at long range then the shooters would move up and perform various timed accuracy tasks as we moved towards the targets at the end of the range. All the slower and more deliberate shooting would be done at the beginning with the long range at play and as we close in on the targets the tasks would become more movement and snap shooting oriented. In my imaginary event no reloading would be allowed when not on the clock during a timed "task". I'm only saying that because I just don't see a mixed group of shooters from their 20's to late 60's rushing down the 200 yards under the clock for the whole time and see any way to keep it "fair"... In other words as a nearly 60 year old shooter I don't want them young whippersnappers beating me with their youthful sprinting... :D The line of shooters would move up the range as a group to avoid stepping ahead of the firing line. At the end for the last 75'ish yards we'd all move to one side where a safe area facing a berm or similar was set up ahead of time. From this line one shooter at a time would take his firearm and perform the last task which would be an advance and fire drill where he would move forward to various cover positions and shoot at their target. The final one would be almost point blank at 10'ish yards. A veritable "white's of their eyes" deal. Following the last shooter the targets would be retrieved and the final scoring would be done in connection with the times.

Heck,if I could figure out how to do it safely with our "peace time" rules and if the weather gave us dry enough ground I'd like to have the shooters do a belly crawl to a firing position to take out a lone "sentry" as one event. Something where a leveled rifle scope or similar would be used where if the contestant's butt, shoulder, head or other parts cross the "line" over them that they would be given a small penalty. Or would that be going a little too far?
 
Ah... Nothing?

... <puts hand on hips> And I just might do that... SO THERE! :D

I'm well aware that in most clubs these days that if someone wants to shoot a specific discipline that they may well need to step up and organize it themselves. I've seen and benefited by such folks that are doing just this in two of my local clubs. And I'm not afraid of doing the the same for something specific myself.

So let's change the "course" of this thread a little....

If you were to go to a "Classic Military Rifle Match" what would you lot like to see for tasks? I've reviewed some of the EOHC vids for ideas. But from what I've seen there isn't the movement and forced reloading aspect that I so enjoy about my IPSC and IDPA shooting. I'd really like to incorporate a good measure of movement and IDPA like use of cover into any such match. Hell, if I were allowed I'd put in some foxholes and bomb craters for the shooters run for and drop into before taking their shots for the tasks.... :D

But realistically the foxholes and bomb craters aren't going to happen. But from what I wrote about my match tasks in my last post what do you all think about what I described?
 
A WW1 service rifle match would be great. There is nothing quite like seeing century old war horses slug it out against each other in a friendly match long after the guns have fallen silent.
 
BCRider said:
Ah... Nothing?

... <puts hand on hips> And I just might do that... SO THERE! :D

I'm well aware that in most clubs these days that if someone wants to shoot a specific discipline that they may well need to step up and organize it themselves. I've seen and benefited by such folks that are doing just this in two of my local clubs. And I'm not afraid of doing the the same for something specific myself.

So let's change the "course" of this thread a little....

If you were to go to a "Classic Military Rifle Match" what would you lot like to see for tasks? I've reviewed some of the EOHC vids for ideas. But from what I've seen there isn't the movement and forced reloading aspect that I so enjoy about my IPSC and IDPA shooting. I'd really like to incorporate a good measure of movement and IDPA like use of cover into any such match. Hell, if I were allowed I'd put in some foxholes and bomb craters for the shooters run for and drop into before taking their shots for the tasks.... :D

But realistically the foxholes and bomb craters aren't going to happen. But from what I wrote about my match tasks in my last post what do you all think about what I described?
Click to expand...


I'd be all over that, it would give me a chance to wear my LRDG uniform as well!
 
Shooting and moving sounds like an interesting and realistic idea but when it comes down to range safety adding something like this will require at least two range officials. One to go with shooters and one to stay back and control the start line.

If you were to go ahead, I would not plan on organizing this yourself. (speaking from experience here). I would find at least one good friend, (no you can't have mine :) ) and plan something out. Keeping things simple has always worked in making matches run smooth.

Things you should consider:
1. Scoring targets and how people shoot. The rules for how things are to proceed will have to be clear and there will have to be a referee for when rules are broken/perceived to be broken;
2. Timing will be critical, I would suggest a dry run of the event to see how long it takes to run through a complete "stage" with one person;
3. Keeping interest and audience, if you run through a complete stage and are done for the day you run the risk of people leaving early or a large gang of talkers building up behind the line, (it happens). When we have our EOHC match it is often a distraction to the more serious shooters with the background chatter. On the flip side, about 80% of the people at the EOHC match are there to talk guns with GunNutz and is that a bad thing?

Anyhow, I would encourage you to set one up yourself with a few friends. You will not regret it and it SIGNIFICANTLY promotes the sport.

Cheers

SKScanuck
 
Military rifle competition in Saskatoon

Sunday May 15th Saskatoon Muzzle Loading Club - www.smlc.ca
– 9:30am Shooters Meeting, 10 am Start
- Knife and Hawk golf in the morning, low score wins
- .303 shoot, 50 & 100 yd, 5 shots offhand & 5 shots from the bench
at paper targets from each distance (total of 20 shots)
- Non .303 military rifle shoot, 50 & 100 yard offhand, 5 shots at
each distance (total of 10 shots). There will be a black powder and a
smokeless class. Both classes are iron sights only.
- Smokeless class – must be a bolt action rifle used by the
miltary from WWII or earlier (6.5x55, 30.06, 7.62, etc.)
- Black Powder class – any black powder military rifle, any
action (Enfield Snider, Springfield Trapdoor, 43 Mauser, etc)
- Original Rifle Shoot - must have been manufactured prior to 1900
and have the original barrel, sights, & action. 5 shots at the 100
tombstone sillhouettes
 
Very good point
As Tudenom stated my shoot is done. After 9-years (2000 to 2009) I got burned out because I didn't develop a core team to spread the work out - lesson learned. I have been thinking about bringing it back for 2012/13. Below (in bold) is the course of fire which was going to be used for the tenth year anniversary with another rifle raffle (previous year it was a Soviet SKS-45). Prizes used to be hand made trophies but I toned it down a touch to keep my workload down and developed unique certificates. One of the objectives was to break even financially but, usually, the club made a few hundred bucks in the end.

This match utilized derelect rifle butts built in 1942 here in Terrace. Therefore the match may not be entirely appropriate for most ranges however if you think outside the envelope I think you will find there are ways to make this work without rifle buts.

I tried to include as many elements of service rifle shooting - (slightly simplified) and span the COF over the basic positions and disciplines of gun fighting.

There were issues with gleaning awards and sponsorship. Even though this match had grown into a regional level match with competitors from all over Northern BC it was not endorsed by IPSC, IDPA or other sanctioned providers. I often heard back, "Sorry but we don't sponsor club matches - it we did we'd go broke". Therefore without that linkage sponsorship became a real challenge. I found this very frustrating.

Please feel free to adopt the rule set (or portions of it) for developing your own matches. If you expect someone else to do this on your behalf you will be waiting a long time. Get involved with your gun club. Get to know who the players are and the the suport mechanisms are. They apply to manage at least one shoot per year and have them put you on the club schedule of events. START DEVELOPING YOUR MATCH AND DON'T FORGET TO ADVERTIZE YOURSELF (NEWSPAPER, RADIO, TV INTERVIEWS)

Try to keep the first match as simple and as practical as possible and from there (if successful) you will have the best opportunity to glean a team of shooters willing to help you organize future events. If you do this right you will have your own chapter of the club within a few years.

YOU CAN DO IT!

Enjoy
Richard
(Adobe Reader Required).
10th Annual Vintage Service Rifle Championship

Older video from 2007 showing some of the serials
[youtube]nlv2OcdKaWY[/youtube]

2000 to 2006
[youtube]i_VmaKawvNA[/youtube]
 
Last edited:
Fort la Bosse Classic Arms Gun Club is having a Historical Arms Match on Sepember 25, at the range at Wolverine Supply, 4 miles north of Virden, Manitoba. Organiser for the shoot is Ed James.

If you want to try out your milsurps for hunting, the Running Deer shoot on October 2 is open to anything you can carry.

I'm trying to find some interest in a WWI match based on original rifles, changing to an unknown rifle partway through. They did it at Second Ypres and lived to tell about it, but modern guys seem scared of the idea. I have offered to supply 20 WWI rifles with ammo for the 'unknowns', but no interest; I guess SKSs rule these days.

Oh well, somebody will do it... and they'll have a lot of fun.
.
 
SKScanuck said:
Shooting and moving sounds like an interesting and realistic idea but when it comes down to range safety adding something like this will require at least two range officials. One to go with shooters and one to stay back and control the start line.

If you were to go ahead, I would not plan on organizing this yourself. (speaking from experience here). I would find at least one good friend, (no you can't have mine :) ) and plan something out. Keeping things simple has always worked in making matches run smooth.

Things you should consider:
1. Scoring targets and how people shoot. The rules for how things are to proceed will have to be clear and there will have to be a referee for when rules are broken/perceived to be broken;
2. Timing will be critical, I would suggest a dry run of the event to see how long it takes to run through a complete "stage" with one person;
3. Keeping interest and audience, if you run through a complete stage and are done for the day you run the risk of people leaving early or a large gang of talkers building up behind the line, (it happens). When we have our EOHC match it is often a distraction to the more serious shooters with the background chatter. On the flip side, about 80% of the people at the EOHC match are there to talk guns with GunNutz and is that a bad thing?

Anyhow, I would encourage you to set one up yourself with a few friends. You will not regret it and it SIGNIFICANTLY promotes the sport.

Cheers

SKScanuck
Click to expand...

I agree with all of the above since we're co-organizers of that match. A few more principles:

#1 - Have a Reason - This guides the principles. If for example it's to attract more people to "collecting and shooting milsurps", that would result in a different shoot than if it was to "foster precision shooting".

#2 - Keep it Simple. ALL aspects of the shoot. Forget pre-registration, just have them show up. Have them score their own targets. Make the events few in number and simple enough that a first-timer can follow them (if they don't show up the first time, they'll never show up). Be consistent - adapt, but don't change the Course of Fire every year for the sake of change. Have simple rules and stick by them. There's always someone who wants the rules to adapt to them.....

#3 - Keep it Friendly. Don't have prizes, except perhaps door prizes that are donated by sponsors. It doesn't matter who won, or who maintained "unspoiled" targets. As soon as there's prize money involved everything changes.

#4 - Keep it Inclusive. Make it so that just about anyone could participate.

#5 - Keep the costs down. See above for ways this can be done and how it contributes to #1 and #2.

#6 - Keep the organizing effort down. See all of the above. Parcel out small pieces to people you can trust.


There are lots of idea people, and lots who will participate, but few who will organize and assist. Just do it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom