Are These Signs of a Tight Chamber - Cases Stuck!?!

[icanuck]

It's point form as I have quickly jotted down the jist of the problem at work...

Is this a sign of a "Tight Chamber"? If so, is there anything I can do about it or does one just live with it. To be honest I'd rather not have a gun that's #####y about what I feed her. She's new and I've contemplated getting a hold of the vendor, but figured I'd throw this out to you guys to see what your thoughts were.
- New Gun: Howa 1500 stainless in .223 I picked up in January of this year.
- took it to the range for the first time
- my brother has same rifle but is blued and different manufacture date (very tolerant and accurate with almost anything he feeds it)
- his sweetheart load is 25.5 (.5 gr over min according to Hodgdon) H4895 under a 50 gr VMAX (I know - I made them for him)
- Remington brass, FL re-sized
- we went to the range together I tried his load in my rifle as it was .5 over min and figured it safe.
- chambered fine and extracted fine unfired
- after firing the brass was stuck in chamber
- used cleaning rod to push back out the chamber
- primer was very flat
- after 2 times of this it was obvious his load isn't my load, switched to federal factory ammo
- all factory ammo fired and extracted fine - extracted fine unfired.
- it was cold out minus 15ish
- these handloads loads fired fine in my brothers rifle during the session
- went back to range a few times during Feb (always little on the cold side weather wise), used factory ammo to get some trigger time and make some brass
- used this once-fired brass (Federal) and created 20 rounds of a milder load of 24gr (1gr under min according to Hodgdon but an OK load according to my Speer manual) H4895 under 50gr VMAX to see what happens
- neck sized with Lee Collet
- all fed, fired and extracted fine during a range session. Were reasonably accurate. Also fed and extracted fine unfired (tested after making them). Thought to myself OK, this is a load I can work with.
- thoroughly cleaned and oiled it (bore, bolt & chamber etc.)
- made 20 more using once-fired brass with this recipe if a hunting opportunity showed up
- went in March couple times for coyote, this ammo fed and extracted unfired too (nothing to shoot at!) also on the cold side for weather -5 to -10
- using a couple rounds from this 20 batch, I went out again for coyotes this weekend +15C outside. Chambered a round. Didn't fire it. At end of the morning hunt, attempted to extract it. It was stuck in the chamber - unfired!
- shot the round off and the empty case extracted fine.
- chambered another round to see what happens, tried to extract it unfired, it was stuck!
- shot it off, case extracted fine
- scratched my head, chambered another, it was stuck. Fired it, extracted fine.
- I have a bag of Remington new unfired brass at home, a random handful fed and extracted fine unfired
- The bolt is not hard to close when chambering any of the rounds mentioned in the original post.
- as I'm typing this I realize I didn't try to re-chamber the now twice-fired brass - I'll try that tonight.
Does the fact that these were once fired in the cold make a difference? Is it a sign of a "tight" chamber? If it is a tight chamber and I have to load near the minimum should I care about the loss of velocity compared to my brothers rifle? Because it's a tight chamber, the pressures I assume would then be higher, will I lose velocity after all? I don't have a chrony to check it (maybe an excuse to buy one!?!). Does the vendor have any concern or responsibility with a "tight" chamber? First time I'm encountering this, and am looking for insight and what the possible side effects are...
Thanks.

 

[ben hunchak]

IMHO, you could be having problems in a couple of areas a) differing bullet seating depth or dif. in bullet meplat and some are catching in rifling.
b) brass too long for chamber on some rounds.
c) crimp could be inconsistent and actually bulge case at the mouth on some rds.
d) case necks too thick on some rounds.......I mention these things because at one time or another I've had these problems......Ben

 

[icanuck]

IMHO, you could be having problems in a couple of areas a) differing bullet seating depth or dif. in bullet meplat and some are catching in rifling.

Not sure here. I seated them all to COAL length specified in my Speer manual. Playing with seating depth may be part of the solution?

b) brass too long for chamber on some rounds.

I wouldn't think so, I neck re-sized them using a Lee collet and cam'd over the press for consistency, besides I had chambered them successfully when I made them.

c) crimp could be inconsistent and actually bulge case at the mouth on some rds.

Can't be this I didn't crimp them.

d) case necks too thick on some rounds

Not sure about this one. They were all the same lot number of brass from Federal so I figure they'd be pretty consistent.

 

[rembolt]

If it were me I would be returning the rifle to the manufacture.after all it is a new rifle I assume.that is what the warranty is for .

 

[cosmic]

Have you checked the case lengths, or trimmed them. BTW - Were your last twenty rounds from the same Federal factory ammo you had used previously. Are you trying to neck size brass shot in your brothers, or someone elses rifle?

 

[Budweiser360]

Have you tried full-length sizing the brass from factory ammo you shot in YOUR rifle.

Also, you should start 10% lower and work up your loads. ALWAYS. Never use someone elses neck sized brass, it may be unsafe. If you have really flat primers, you are way too hot and getting very close to piercing them.

 

[tiriaq]

Ammunition that is fine in the cold may produce excessive pressure in warmer weather.
Take cases fired only in your rifle. FL size them. Check overall length. Load them with a moderate load, see if this makes any difference.

 

[Pudelpointer]

Have you tried full-length sizing the brass from factory ammo you shot in YOUR rifle.

Also, you should start 10% lower and work up your loads. ALWAYS. Never use someone elses neck sized brass, it may be unsafe. If you have really flat primers, you are way too hot and getting very close to piercing them.

Not necessarily. Usually heavily flattened primers are caused by the case being loose in the chamber and slamming back against the breech face upon firing.

Why the rounds would stick unfired is a head scratcher. By sticking so you mean you cannot lift the bolt at all? Or does it start to move and then get tight? Other question asked above need answering as well.

 

[icanuck]

Have you checked the case lengths, or trimmed them.

I just checked the case lengths of the brass fired in only my rifle (ones that stuck and I fired to get the case out this past weekend): 1.750". Under the 1.760 max case OAL listed in the Speer manual.

BTW - Were your last twenty rounds from the same Federal factory ammo you had used previously.

Yup. I bought 2 boxes of the same factory (Federal 55 gr FMJ) at the same time from the same place. I just checked the box and they are the same lot numbers.

Are you trying to neck size brass shot in your brothers, or someone elses rifle?

Nope. The brass he had that we were firing came from previously once fired that I full length resized before reloading. These chambered fine in both my rifle and his before firing.

 

[icanuck]

Have you tried full-length sizing the brass from factory ammo you shot in YOUR rifle.

I'll try this.

Also, you should start 10% lower and work up your loads. ALWAYS.

The 25.5 grain load is a moderate-low load from Hodgdon, and the 24 grain load is on the low side from the Speer manual and under the min listed in Hodgdon. Both being on the low side I didn't think I'd have a problem.

Never use someone elses neck sized brass, it may be unsafe. If you have really flat primers, you are way too hot and getting very close to piercing them.

All brass fired in my gun was sized correctly. Being factory, FL resized once fired, or neck sized if it came out of my rifle.

 

[icanuck]

Ammunition that is fine in the cold may produce excessive pressure in warmer weather.

I'm wondering if this is the case here. I mentioned the cold because I had a suspicion it may be a factor. Anyone else comment on this?

Take cases fired only in your rifle. FL size them. Check overall length.

This got me thinking to double check the lengths as they are now. I went to the loading room and did some measuring. Speer says the max COAL is 2.260. I measured the COAL of the batch that got stuck this weekend, and they all measure 2.235. The max case OAL is 1.760 and the ones that were stuck before firing this weekend were: 1.750.

I'm going to smoke a round and insert it into the chamber and see what where it marks it. It'll probably get stuck though!!

I'll FL resize them tonight or tomorrow night and see what I get for OAL. I'll also load a few on the mild side as I'm off to the range this weekend and will see what the outcome is.

 

[joe-nwt]

Try some different brass. I've had lots of federal brass that fired/extracted fine as factory, to end to problems with it as reloads. Especially 223. The brass is just way too soft.

Go buy some winchester whitebox and repeat all of your experimentation.

 

[carbonrod]

If it were me I would be returning the rifle to the manufacture.after all it is a new rifle I assume.that is what the warranty is for .

How can you say that? icanuck, how does the rifle handle factory loads?

Ammunition that is fine in the cold may produce excessive pressure in warmer weather.
Take cases fired only in your rifle. FL size them. Check overall length. Load them with a moderate load, see if this makes any difference.

I'm wondering if this is the case here. I mentioned the cold because I had a suspicion it may be a factor. Anyone else comment on this?

For sure. I try to test at least my hunting loads on the hottest day I can find, and the coldest, though until recently I thought this was mostly an excuse to shoot in crazy weather.

I'm going to smoke a round and insert it into the chamber and see what where it marks it. It'll probably get stuck though!!

If it is a loaded round, don't smoke it. Draw on it with a marker.

 

[icanuck]

Try some different brass.

I've got some new remington brass I'm going to make some mild loads with.

 

[icanuck]

How can you say that? icanuck, how does the rifle handle factory loads?

It handles factory just fine. At lease the 40 Federals I tried. I'll grab some different factory this week for my range trip this weekend as well.

If it is a loaded round, don't smoke it. Draw on it with a marker.

Good point, I used the term as I seem to recall that's what it's most often referred to when you do that. I'm going to be using my whiteboard markers...

 

[stubblejumper]

It handles factory just fine. At lease the 40 Federals I tried.

Which is a good indication that the problem is the hand loads,not the rifle.

 

[thebuckhunter]

Are you trimming your brass?

-Jason

 

[ykkid]

I do not think either the vendor or manufacturer have a role here. The OP says the rifle handles factory rounds just fine,which is what they are manufactured and sold to do. No vendor or manufacturer is going to waranty that the rifle will operate just fine with Uncle Bubba's Next County Magnum Home Brews. And if the OP ain't Uncle Bubba, well, they still won't warranty his loads either.

 

[rembolt]

How can you say that? icanuck, how does the rifle handle factory loads


Sorry I miss read the op that all the rounds were sticking.

 

[deadeyes40]

i heard the same thing about federal once fired brass and even watched a guy have problems with his 223 brass.this guy ia very critical of his loads and shoots a lot,all his brass would be FL resized,trimmed,lubed polished.anything and everything that the reloading manuals say.and he still had problems with the brass.it will work good in his AR but the browning doesn't like it.never had any problem with the remington or winchester once fired.