Are We “Managing Wildlife to Zero” in British Columbia?

How does one manage wildlife?

I'll share an anecdote, 30 years ago on my property Mule Deer were frequently seen. Now Mule Deer are seldom seen but Whitetail are seen daily and Elk are seen frequently. There's still lots of animals, just not the same animals.

Also, the gov't says the Mule Deer population is half of 2009 and it seems that the Sheep have abandoned the winter ranges. Why is this? Wolves?

Based on my counts MD buck/doe ratios are good (20:100 during the season, 45:100 after), but most of the MD I saw were proximal to escape terrain, some were in areas I'd say were suitable for goats, I think this is a response to predation.
 
I wouldn't want to see it here ,but in South Africa ALL the game is privately owned and managed...and that means sustainable game populations ...and 'preditor control ' includes shooting poachers ....( try THAT in Canada )
 
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umchorn2 said:
IronNoggin,

You wanted a science based approach to wildlife management and I gave it to you. It's called economics. The numbers don't lie. Do the math. Wildlife conservation is expensive. The landbase alone needed to supply all the hunters in every canadian province is worth billions.

Now I own 470 acres of productive wildlife habitat. That is enough to produce 1 deer for my own consumption each year without any other inputs...eg. food plots. If I wanted to shoot an elk or bear off the property every year I would be depleting the population. I would need to drastically alter the natural habitat so that level of demand would not deplete my elk and bear. In the case of a free ranging herd of elk or black bear you need thousands of a acres of habitat. And then how many animals as a percentage of the population do you think you can kill before the populations decline? 3-5% perhaps...8-10% if you're in a mild climate with low predation. Any higher and you need serious monetary inputs to boost population recovery.

If I wanted enough land to support a free ranging herd of elk I would need 3000-5000 acres. And then I would only be able to shoot a couple elk maybe each year without negative polulation declines.

So you tell me...how are you going to get the money needed to buy the habitat needed to boost the populations of wildlife without increasing the cost to the consumer genius? Oh and since I actually dropped real money into some land that actually produces wildlife so I have a place to hunt...be sure not to reduce my hunting opportunities, ok? And you're dreaming if you think $40 tags are going to help...we need $400 tags and put $350 of that directly back into habitat conservation and wildlife collision fencing in areas that are particularly bad.

And one more thing, privatization relieves the pressure on a dwindling public resource while creating new opportunities for people who are willing to pay. Nobody is forcing you to pay to hunt in a hunt preserve but not having the option means you have to hunt under the provincial tag system or don't hunt at all. So get real, open your mind and start thinking about realistic solutions.

I can already fly to Africa and shoot 3 or 4 trophy quality animals evey year for the price of one white-tail hunt when you take into consideration all my gear and the time off work I need to find something with antlers that is all grown up in this country. And how long you think I want to wait to draw an elk tag? I can go to a game farm pay the guy what I make in a couple weeks and come home with a trophy in a few days. Not everyone is retired and I don't have the whole year to find an elk on public land. Don't be cheap and spend some money, you might get a chance to hunt and actually get something worth the price. But don't expect to get something for free. There is a cost to having a government administered tag system...and a dwindling supply of public wildlife.
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thanks for that...truth hurts. wish it were not so. If logging industry in BC had financial incentive to manage for wildlife..there would be more wildlife. The fact is there is financial incentive to manage for less wildlife. Same with ranching and farming.
 
MiG25 said:
How does one manage wildlife?

I'll share an anecdote, 30 years ago on my property Mule Deer were frequently seen. Now Mule Deer are seldom seen but Whitetail are seen daily and Elk are seen frequently. There's still lots of animals, just not the same animals.

Also, the gov't says the Mule Deer population is half of 2009 and it seems that the Sheep have abandoned the winter ranges. Why is this? Wolves?

Based on my counts MD buck/doe ratios are good (20:100 during the season, 45:100 after), but most of the MD I saw were proximal to escape terrain, some were in areas I'd say were suitable for goats, I think this is a response to predation.
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for sure. Yah Ha Tinda did a big burn for elk. Banff Elk. The wolves camped on burn. Elk selected poor habitat to avoid predation which is downward spiral. Poor body scores..low birth weight of calves,less twinning,vulnerbility to harder winters.
 
ratherbefishin said:
'Reefer loads of moose' ? I know guys who have installed coolers in order to stop meat spoilage when they have to travel from the Lower mainland ,it's either that or lose it...
My issue with 'sustenance ' hunting or fishing is not when it's for their own use but selling it....and guess who buys it?....you can see cars lined up along the highway buying the 'cheap' fish
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I have a trailer with a 5x4x4 icebox built in. TheTsay Keh Dene First Nation have been seen with a reefer tractor trailer in the Kemess Mine area in the summer time. Maybe they are filling it with moose and caribou, maybe they are keeping their groceries fresh while they build cabins on crown land? I should not assume that they are hunting, I guess. They also fish steelhead from Johansen Lake but woe be unto whitey if he touches those fish.
 
Region 4... seen more cougars in the past 3 years than I have in the last 25. And it is not a case of my eyesight getting better with age. Considering what the big cats prey on, and they need to eat quite often, is it a wonder to see less newborns every year? Add to that, all the clearcuts are growing in, and add some Elk fencing from ranchers, and you can see the issue. Less food= less young, more predators=less young.

Also, more animals were killed in highway collisions over the past 5 years than were harvested by hunters.

You would think these straightforward answers would be self evident to a biologist... but I guess not.
 
Anyone else notice when the moose harvest was constantly increasing from 1992-1997 that the mule deer harvest was the exact opposite during the same time? Both seem to stabilize somewhat after this time.

Why?
 
Got Juice? said:
Region 4... seen more cougars in the past 3 years than I have in the last 25. And it is not a case of my eyesight getting better with age. Considering what the big cats prey on, and they need to eat quite often, is it a wonder to see less newborns every year? Add to that, all the clearcuts are growing in, and add some Elk fencing from ranchers, and you can see the issue. Less food= less young, more predators=less young.

Also, more animals were killed in highway collisions over the past 5 years than were harvested by hunters.

You would think these straightforward answers would be self evident to a biologist... but I guess not.
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I used to live and hunt in the East Kootenays in the mid 90s and elk hunting was at an all time low. Once the six point restriction combined with a reduction in the cow tag numbers took effect the herd blossomed and there was an unprecedented hunting opportunity. Then it came down to the landowner and rancher complaints to decimate the herd, and combined with the increase in predator numbers was successful in drastically reducing the elk numbers. So there it is, another former success story that was flushed down the crapper for public opinion. I have no stake in it anymore, but still a shame when my best elk hunting memories took place there.
 
Well in Sask.....widespread baiting and outfitting has destroyed our Whitetail Deer herd!!!!

Yet SERM, the SWF and Govt. won't ban baiting because so many jobs depend on it?????

It is not hunting IF you shoot an animal over a pile of bait!!!
 
350 Mag said:
Well in Sask.....widespread baiting and outfitting has destroyed our Whitetail Deer herd!!!!

Yet SERM, the SWF and Govt. won't ban baiting because so many jobs depend on it?????

It is not hunting IF you shoot an animal over a pile of bait!!!
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Everything you said there is wrong.
No way baiting destroyed a deer herd, other than possibly though transmission of CWD.

Nothing wrong with hunting over bait. You don't have to take part if you don't want to, but blaming that as the problem is just plain wrong. And blanket statements like that are pathetic
 
FishHog said:
Everything you said there is wrong.
No way baiting destroyed a deer herd, other than possibly though transmission of CWD.

Nothing wrong with hunting over bait. You don't have to take part if you don't want to, but blaming that as the problem is just plain wrong. And blanket statements like that are pathetic
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Elk are herd animals and deer commonly gather into large groups during the winter, so the "baiting causing CWD" is nonsense.
 
350 Mag said:
Well in Sask.....widespread baiting and outfitting has destroyed our Whitetail Deer herd!!!!

Yet SERM, the SWF and Govt. won't ban baiting because so many jobs depend on it?????

It is not hunting IF you shoot an animal over a pile of bait!!!
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I think its safe to say that back to back extreme winters killed off most of the deer. Majority of the province has zero outfitting and shooting a deer over bait or shooting a deer in an alfalfa field still equals a dead deer, only difference is that shooting it over bait ensures a cleaner kill.
 
what I see affecting game populations in british columbia specifically is not being caused by hunters , and by hunters I include anyone killing an animal by the method of "hunting" , be they licensed hunters, indigenous hunters or straight up poachers. By and large I do not see these groups as being the cause of the decline of ungulate numbers in British Columbia. I will say the exact same thing for fisheries as they pertain to British Columbia.

I have fished the rivers and oceans of this province , been to all the must go to steelhead rivers can be proud to have caught a 73pound wild , river run chinook salmon in my lifetime, a 58 pound ocean run chinook.... a 28 pound ocean run coho salmon...... a 26 pound wild river run steelhead.......
but these things all happened before 2005. That year is when I really started to see change ..... I don't mean that slow change, I mean rapid industrialization of British Columbia. We started shipping raw logs out of province and the clear cuts replanted with preferred plant matter and no regard for replacing ungulate browse. In so many areas in the interior I find invasive species, have replaced entire willow patches and these shrubs that grow aren't even food for deer.....
Every river in this province has all but been destroyed as fish habitat by siltation from logging, mining and the fish farms that have industrialized our west coast have poisoned the waters for what salmon and steelhead do manage to survive thier river environment.
Our governments are mismanaging our entire ecosystem and have been for decades. I don't see any way of improving the situation personally other than by way of massive sweeping changes to forest practices, mining practices, gas exploration practices, agriculture practices..... hmmmm I could go on LOL

It's sad but it's true and as long as we keep going down the road we are going, hunting will be a thing of the past and so will the governments concern over animal popualtions. Habitat is the key and nothing else really matters, be it on land or in the ocean/rivers.

that elephant hill wildfire that happened this past summer and came uncomfortably close to burning us out....... That fire could have and should have been stopped in an all out assault before it even reached the Loon Lake plateau. They let it burn.
What they did in allowing that fire to burn all the way north from ashcroft to sheridan lake and 8km from my doorstep...... is allow fire to destroy essential ungulate and predator wintering grounds. The Illahee meadows is destroyed....... this is so devastating to ungulate wintering habitat that I expect we will see the effects in those regions for the rest of my lifetime. I drove thru the entire area, took a couple days and I came to realize it will never be the same , nor will it support the thousands of animals it did over winters. It simply will not recover in my lifetime...... what was it .... over 200,000 hectares of prime habitat burnt to ash....

anyhow, I'm rambling on.... LOL
 
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45ACPKING said:
That elephant hill wildfire that happened this past summer and came uncomfortably close to burning us out....... That fire could have and should have been stopped in an all out assault before it even reached the Loon Lake plateau. They let it burn.
What they did in allowing that fire to burn all the way north from ashcroft to sheridan lake and 8km from my doorstep...... is allow fire to destroy essential ungulate and predator wintering grounds. The Illahee meadows is destroyed....... this is so devastating to ungulate wintering habitat that I expect we will see the effects in those regions for the rest of my lifetime. I drove thru the entire area, took a couple days and I came to realize it will never be the same , nor will it support the thousands of animals it did over winters. It simply will not recover in my lifetime...... what was it .... over 200,000 hectares of prime habitat burnt to ash....
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Fire is natures way of renewing the forest, it has gone on this way for millennia, it will recover stronger then ever.
 
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