Are we to blame for the decline in hunting as well?

joe-nwt

joe-nwt

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I was replying to a post in another thread when I realized it was slightly off topic in that thread and it might make a good topic for a new one. No offense to the gentleman quoted here;

RememberTheSomme said:
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A young man at work just told me of the Parker Hale sporter in .303Brit he just bought to go deer Hunting for the first time this fall and I started to say well thats good but.........cut myself off and said well when youre ready I'll take you out to the range and show you how to shoot that thing!

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What were you going to tell him? That a 303 isn't good enough for deer?

Somewhere along the line, our current crop of firearms "experts" have to lighten the f**k up when it comes to hunting and shooting. Really, the average newbie doesn't care about ballistic coefficients, SD's etc. I'm starting to think that we are just as much to blame for the decline in hunting as any other factor. ESPECIALLY when it comes to deer. This will come as a complete shock to many here I'm sure, but ANY centerfire rifle can drill a hole through a deer! Yes, it's true!:p

So why don't we just let new shooters shoot? Why do we feel the need to start inundating new shooters with technical jargon about cartridges that have bullets that are a few thou bigger or smaller?

I guess the real question I want to ask is: Do we make shooting in general far more complicated for the average newbie than it really needs to be?
 
Agreed 100% Joe.

As I posted, I started to say thats a good start but a lighter, flatter shooting nicer looking, scoped wonder rig,.... but the reality is, I can take game with the .303British as you can too and to see one more young man add to our ranks of hunters is important.
I want to see his rifle is sighted and he is famailar with the sights. I'll have him dry firing with that sight picture on deer cut outs from a magazine in no time.

We who have equal knowledge on firearms particulars ,like to arm wrestle over the finer points.
This can be confusing and bring a total unnecessary reaction or purchase to a new hunter/shooter.:canadaFlag:
 
I think one of the other mistakes we make is moaning about how hard it is to own a gun. Its really not and its only slightly more complicated then getting a passport and we should promote that
 
Some will bare the responsibility for chastising or belittling the new hunter/gun owner for their choice of deer rifle.
Others will dis agree completely just to hear themselves speak.
But ,generally when asked what I shoot I tell the interested party what it is , what it can do and what you might expect.
Am I wrong or am I correct, dont care what one thinks of my choice in rifle or cartridge I speak from my experience good or bad and let them decide.
I'll prolly get flack for my comments, but the nomax is on and it is a chilly 12c this morning.
Tight Groups and Happy Birthday Canada and to us Canadians.
Rob
 
The majority of people who want to go out and hunt I would think know someone who has at least one gun that they could lend them (nothing wrong with two guys go out with one gun, so a mentor can talk them through a first hunt). Maybe its more the guys who do shoot already that want to get out that would be put off by not having the "right gun".

To me the bigger problem might be finding the place to hunt, I have trouble going to the door of a stranger not knowing how they feel about hunting and guns and asking to hunt on their land. And even then, is it even a good place to hunt, what is the best setup.
 
While I agree with you 100% Joe, I'll add that the increasing amount of courses, licenses, and dollars needed to start out also takes it's toll. The demise of the registry will help a bit, and so will the expected flood of unregistered rifles to be traded afterwards. I bet there are thousands of them.

I think we need to talk hunting with the younger set more than we do as well.
 
Throughout time there have always been hunters. Even within a group or tribe that survived by hunting, there was always the "hunter class". Not everyone hunts, not everyone should hunt. But those that want to will use whatever tools they can afford to pursue their chosen game.
Even in our modern world we hold preconceived notions as to what is the best rifle or caliber. What we should focus on is kindling and feeding the fire that burns deep within those that have the desire to hunt. That should be our primary goal.
As to whether it is a 303 or Parker Hale or a club each hunter will find the right tools that work for them and their skill level. It is an evolutionary process.
Offering to take him to the range was the best thing you could have said. Well done!
 
The decline in hunting has a lot more to do than the barrage of info a newbie faces. In my experience the largest factor is the frustration with access.

New hunters hear story after story about " the good old days " or great hunts many of us have had. However, when they start hunting many of the places they have access to are over crowded, posted, or just too far away. This can shut down a prospective hunter pretty quickly.

Land that was once accessible is now filled with acreages and any most hunters tend to keep the best spots to themselves.

Another factor is the general attitude of many of the younger generation ( Not all of them so no offense intended). They are raised to have an attention span of 30 seconds and everything must be fun and provide immediate feedback. How many newbies are willing to to hunt for an entire season and never see a legal animal or go fishing for five hours without a bite. When I was young I never pulled the trigger on a deer four two years and I fished all summer and caught less than ten fish. As I got older things changed and my successes improved.

I don't think all the gun techno jargon is the reason for declining hunters. The reason can best be described by an experience I've had.

I was asking permision to hunt on a fellows land. He said go ahead. He had a son and I asked if his boy liked hunting. He said he was too busy playing video games. If any of us grew up on a farm in prime deer country would we be spending a saturday in hunting season on the couch pushing little buttons ?
 
I agree with above statements, but there are reasons for contradiction. Firstly, the marketplace will always dictate "new and improved" or "modern" ect. Without this, there is no market and no sales. You will generally not hear statements from a modern shop of how old mausers, mosins, and enfields can out-shoot and outlast modern rifles valued between one and two thousand dollars. Most successful shops will make statements that support sales of new items, and often skirt the conversations of older products unless there are technological improvements.


I hunt in the forset, not bald a$$ed prairies, and most of my hunting I can suffice with open sights up to 200 yards. Precision shooting was entertaining in the last decade, but for myself it proved to show little merit other than in mile wide hunting areas. Old Mosins and Mausers are extremely effective for 90% of my hunting requirements.


Is a firearm hard to acquire? F*ck no. All that is required is to not be a criminal and pass a test that is written for a 14 year old kid to pass. SKS and Mosin rifles and their ammunition are at an all time high for availability with reasonable prices. You can buy rifles new or as new for under 200 bucks. I have an 11 year old nephew who saved his bottle money to buy an SKS and his own ammo (parental supervision, of course). How much cheaper can shooting be? A case of .22 rimfire that costs 200 bucks lasts my girlfriend almost a year. If someone cannot afford to shoot, I'm thinking they are lacking several other things in their lives as well. I suppose some people have the bucks to buy the Ferrari of rifles from the start, but the reality is that you don't need a box of 100 dollar bills to get into it.

Aside from market of new technology and manufactured firearms, I don't think its complicated at all. You can buy a Mosin 91/30 for 110 bucks. Its as simple as it gets.
 
JoeNWT is right about the tendancy for us to act like know-it-alls and rain on a beginner's parade. This is not a good thing. But like someone else pointed out, access to hunting opportunities is by far a bigger problem.

Here' a challenge to every "established" hunter on this board. Take a beginner hunting this fall. You'll be glad you did, and I guarantee that the beginner will never forget it.
 
Are we to blame for the decline in hunting as well?
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Not exactly on topic, but, I do not know about the rest of Canada, but I can tell you one of the reasons for the decline is cost, and I think its the older hunters who get p!ssed off and throw in the towel because its costing them well over three times the price for a license then when they first started out. My Uncle is one of those guys.

I found one of my old license in a drawer the other day, and it was $24 for deer in 1987. Today its $50.21 :eek::eek: and if you put your name in the lottery draw for a doe license that will cost you $8, and if you won the draw where you can first take a doe then a buck, that will add $20.39 to your deer license(used to be a free yrs ago, and no mention of what the extra $20.39 is for) and if you get lucky and shoot both a doe and a buck, well that will cost you $6 per deer to register.

So if I fill both my tags(Doe + Buck) this year, it will cost me $90.60 just in permits and registration.:( That's enough for a few old timers I know to say SCREW it, and I would bet discourage a young person with limited funds from participating in a hunt.

End of rant....
 
"...only slightly more complicated then getting a passport..." Nope. No courses, etc. are required to get a passport. Just money.
"...frustration with access..." Yep. And all the firearm licencing BS. There not being any public ranges doesn't help either.
 
Hunting takes Effort.
You need to take the initiative to get your pal, your hunter training course, actually read the regs, and in AB, read and let the draw process sink into your brain.
Then you have to Plan ahead if you want to be successful.

That's not to mention practicing shooting, acquiring at least minimum gear(rifle, knife, boots, bullets); then there's harvesting the game, and processing the meat.
Despite what many non hunters think, pulling the trigger on your first ungulate is a big deal to most people.

If a suitable, patient mentor cannot be found, it would be formidable indeed to start hunting on your own. My hat's off to those who have done just that.

Every year in the last 6 or so I've started out a new hunter. This years "newbie" isn't going to pan out. Reason, he couldn't be bothered to put in the required time. His choice, and yet it was he who originally approached me.
Next years has 999'd his this years draws, has his pal, and will be good to go Nov. 2012.
By the way, I haven't taken any newbies out who have ever heard of this site, so no, it's not, "us" if you mean we who frequent this site and argue like a bunch of old hens. :p
 
Joe, sure lots of savy in your post. i will comment on this part---

"So why don't we just let new shooters shoot? Why do we feel the need to start inundating new shooters with technical jargon about cartridges that have bullets that are a few thou bigger or smaller?

I guess the real question I want to ask is: Do we make shooting in general far more complicated for the average newbie than it really needs to be?"

I can remeber at least two posts by new shooters/hunters, that were about identical and each got a lot of nearly identical bad information.
The new shooter stated he had acquired a Lee Enfield sporter and was wondering what kind of ammunition he should use for deer.
Not one, but several writers, told him to buy three or four different brands of ammunition, see which brand was most accurate in his rifle, then use that brand.
This is straight, unadulterated hogwash!
No new shooter with a "sportserized" Lee Enfield, shooting under hunting conditions, could possibly distinguish between brands of ammunition. Any brand of ammunition he can buy off the shelf, will be more accurate in his rifle, than he can shoot.
Before the days of the computer and all the experts on CGNs, an experienced shooter asked such a question by a new hunter, would tell him to just buy a box of shells for it and check the sighting.
Yes, we make things much too complicted for a new shooter/hunter.
 
I would have to agree with H. We do make things more complicated than we should. And while those involved in hunting make things complicated the antis use every opportunity to stigmatize those that wish to partake in the sport.
Its not hard to see why hunting is on the decline.
 
C Broad Arrow said:
I would have to agree with H. We do make things more complicated than we should. And while those involved in hunting make things complicated the antis use every opportunity to stigmatize those that wish to partake in the sport.
Its not hard to see why hunting is on the decline.
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I own lots of different guns because i like to, but also make no bones about
knowing full well that the "lowly" .303 Brits I have in my gun room will drop anything on the planet if i want them to, and often hunt with them with more confidence than some of the other rifles I own!

It's a matter of getting out and shooting, and hunting...! :)
Cat
 
Well, let me tell you...no. I'd like to try hunting, probably deer to start with since I'm not really interested in eating bear. I know firearms well enough to put together a dandy rig for whatever I'm looking to shoot. The simple reason I've never hunted before is that I've never hunted before. My dad never hunted, so I didn't get to experience it when I was younger, and at this point it seems pretty overwhelming. There are too many things to know. I don't even know what the heck to do with it after I shoot it, short of cutting some chunks out of it and putting it over a camp fire. I don't even know how to find it. Pretty much all I can do is wander into some thick looking forest with a gun and walk around for a bit (hopefully without getting lost). It's a pretty daunting challenge for somebody who has literally no knowledge of how to hunt, and I'm certainly not the only one.
 
We overwhelm because we genuinely want to help and that means usually as stated here , "Too much informatiuon".
Baby steps,......... just saying come on out to the camp with me and my son this weekend and letting things take their natural course, is better than overload of the entire process from start to finish. I am speaking directly to myself here. My Rifles have been used by many new shooters and hunters, I can think of no nobler thing for them to be used for.
Just today at my local range I finished of the last of my old heavy Moose loads for my 7mmRemMaG. This Rifle and these loads original 50 rounds, were used by a friend for his deer hunting debut in 1997. He killed 10 point bucks, back to back 97 ,98 and has his own 270 since 99. He just bought my BLR 308 in January for stalking and still hunting, a part of the total hunting experience I showed him, and he has never looked back. He happens to be 8 years older than me(58 now) but a new hunter nonetheless.
Again I have always offered my assistance and even one of my firearms to get a new guy of the ground. It is more rewarding than killing your own Deer, trust me!:)
 
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