Are you disillusionised when shopping for a black rifle?

daedra83

daedra83

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How come no Canadian firearms companies (small or big) are willing to produce a new futuristic black rifle on the Canadian market? Everytime a dealer import a new toy from the US, we always get $odomized. Because seriously, not everybody can afford a 3500$ rifle. Soon the black rifles will be owned only by a small minority of gun owners. Something Canadian made with a reasonable price would be great and it would help to spread the passion for black rifles to the new shooters. Am I gonna have to start my own business or the Canadian companies are gonna wake up? Hello! Stop making AR receivers, we want new rifles!

It's nothing against the dealers who import the guns here (and are doing a great job). I just want us, fellow Canadians, to have options and most important; to have the option to buy Canadian. :canadaFlag:
 
What's "reasonable"? $1500? $2500? $1000?

You do realize how small the Canadian market is, right? And you want the rifle to be an all-new design? It ain't gonna be a $1500 rifle unless it's a straight copy of an existing design. Even then, it's going to cost more with the economies of scale up here.
 
The problem is the market size. You can't justify putting a lot of money into designing novel firearms if there's not a lot of people to buy it. The resulting product, if you aren't going to absorb the research costs as a loss, is a reasonably pricey rifle.
 
Stevo said:
You do realize how small the Canadian market is, right?
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We have a huge hunter community in Canada. No, the market is not that small. They now using black rifles for hunting down south. So if our hunters are using black rifles for hunting it makes that type of guns more commons and the government will have think about it twice before banning them. Plus, we could now sodomize the US market with our new rifle design. :rockOn:
 
The American market has a huge hard-on for the AR. I doubt it can be effectively penetrated, especially with wonky import restrictions.
 
Agent Law said:
The American market has a huge hard-on for the AR. I doubt it can be effectively penetrated, especially with wonky import restrictions.
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If we had non-restricted AR's to hunt with I think Canadians would love them as well.
 
really like the term "sodomize" hey? haha
I like the idea of a canadian company buliding a non-res pistol caliber carbine for our country. shouldbt be too hard to build up something along the lines of the JR-Carbine or Thureon defence carbine. (that said i don't know the laws regarding the production of firearms in canada and how restrictive they are)

As for something in a rifle caliber... i think it would end up being prohibitvely expensive.
 
Looked into it, the paper work and admin is prohibitive. ATRS makes some great stuff but the hoops the gov't makes one jump through ads to the the real cost of doing business. Their is intent on the govt's part of trying to shut down the gun community in Canada, shutting down manufacturing of rifles, and ammo is currently being done, it s a slow process but that is what's happening. Really. I am like you would love to buy only Canadian for a good price but just won't happen. Will have to stick with European stuff for now.
 
the fact is, the market up here would be decent, we would never be able to touch the american market like a classic AR over there could though. then you have to deal with import restrictions on the usa side. but before all that you have to have such a great design that everybody and there mother would want, and you have to make sure that it can fit every accessory from a chainsaw to a grenade launcher to a butter knife. then after that you have to make sure it comes in a decent selection of calibers for people that want bigger game and smaller game. now after all that now you have start up costs. have you any idea what kind of cost for a cnc mill? a boring mill? now you have to buy the building, the tools.people to run them, you have to make it all come together. now you have your gun, now its time to sell it for cheap but make it like an AR. all that time and money that went into research has to be turned into cash somehow. i dont think any of us here are trying to ruin your dream, but you would have to be a multi millionaire with a few million lying around not doing anything.
 
Until the Canadian Government decide we need to be self sufficient in the defense of our own country and make it a national interest, you will never see a Canadian designed and produced black rifle.
 
hbean said:
Until the Canadian Government decide we need to be self sufficient in the defense of our own country and make it a national interest, you will never see a Canadian designed and produced black rifle.
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I agree. It is not going to happen unless the Canadian Forces wants to invest in a new rifle platform, and there is some kind of government subsidy for a Canadian company to design and build one. Then there might be a hunter/sporter version to help offset the R&D costs.

That seems exceptionally unlikely for a number of reasons.

It also might happen if I become exceedingly wealthy and can afford to bear all the research, design, and manufacturing costs up front. That would be awesome--then I could be like the XCR guy.

But that also seems exceptionally unlikely.
 
As long as the rifle doesn't turn out like the fast ferries we built out here in BC :eek::puke::puke:




daedra83 said:
How come no Canadian firearms companies (small or big) are willing to produce a new futuristic black rifle on the Canadian market? Everytime a dealer import a new toy from the US, we always get $odomized. Because seriously, not everybody can afford a 3500$ rifle. Soon the black rifles will be owned only by a small minority of gun owners. Something Canadian made with a reasonable price would be great and it would help to spread the passion for black rifles to the new shooters. Am I gonna have to start my own business or the Canadian companies are gonna wake up? Hello! Stop making AR receivers, we want new rifles!

It's nothing against the dealers who import the guns here (and are doing a great job). I just want us, fellow Canadians, to have options and most important; to have the option to buy Canadian. :canadaFlag:
Click to expand...
 
hbean said:
Until the Canadian Government decide we need to be self sufficient in the defense of our own country and make it a national interest, you will never see a Canadian designed and produced black rifle.
Click to expand...

If Canada never imported another weapons part Colt Canada in Kitchener would continue to turn metal into weapons for our military. Canada makes and issues some of the best rifles and ammunition in the world. Just ask the Dutch, Danish, and British militaries.

Right so all new design, cheap, and the first release has to work as well if not better than the AR without having the 40+ years and billions spent on development.
Kind of like a Canadian XCR, but cheaper than an AR, no teething problems and calibers from .223 to 300win mag. Sounds good. Not realistic but good.
 
daedra83 said:
I admit, it's an issue but can still be done.
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You live in a world of delusion.

The most common complaint on this site is the cost of rifles, especially the black ones. Let's take the Swiss Arms and Tavor for example. These are $3000 rifles. These are rifles made by huge companies.

Now imagine a company trying to make a rifle for the tiny Canadian market. They would most likely be a small company, with luck they already have the facilities to produce a firearm. Even with that, we would be extremely lucky if that rifle cost $3000. I would think it would cost closer to $5000.
 
OneNationUnderThor said:
I agree. It is not going to happen unless the Canadian Forces wants to invest in a new rifle platform, and there is some kind of government subsidy for a Canadian company to design and build one. Then there might be a hunter/sporter version to help offset the R&D costs.
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I know that this is not a new black rifle, but we have a company that the Canadian Forces used to build and supply its rifles, "Diemaco." Now "Colt Canada." In order to operate in Canada, this company has been specifically instructed by the Government of Canada to not sell domestically, except to law enforcement. If they designed a new rifle the same would happen.

As for a new rifle design, with out a doubt, market size is the biggest factor. Our best option is for a US, or other company to build and design the rifle and license the design to a Canadian Company for domestic production.
 
The sad thing is that if a Canadain company did build a new black rifle for our military it would be quickly banned and we would never get our hands on one. :(

But it is hard to take the price diffrence at times.
 
Small market and huge amounts of red tape.

Don't forget the unholy alliance of the Libs and RCMP means that it only takes a bureaucrat or an election to wipe out your business.
 
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