Are you, or your friends quitting the Ontario moose hunt due to no tags?

[John Y Cannuck]

The new tag system may be great for the moose, but it's very frustrating for hunters. For me as an example, I have 13 points this year, and no tag. That's 13 years I have not drawn a tag of any sort for moose. Many camps have no one with sufficient points to draw a tag, and thus the entire camp can't hunt.

This at first look, is not very expensive, the draw entry is only $15. But then, there's the annual camp costs, in our case rent, (paid to the govt in our case) in addition to the costs of trips in to maintain trails, and the camp itself etc, that have to be done regardless of hunting or not.

This can lead to not only discouragement of existing members, but great difficulty in getting new members.

I have friends in other camps who have quit moose hunting entirely, not being able to afford to drive the better part of a day north to areas where tags are plentiful.

Around my house, (54b) I am of the opinion that moose numbers are rising, however, a trip to camp a week ago, shows that this doesn't appear to be the case there (56).

I'm not quitting, until I'm too damned old BTW.

Comments?

 

[Daver_II]

The new tag system may be great for the moose, but it's very frustrating for hunters. For me as an example, I have 13 points this year, and no tag. That's 13 years I have not drawn a tag of any sort for moose. Many camps have no one with sufficient points to draw a tag, and thus the entire camp can't hunt.

This at first look, is not very expensive, the draw entry is only $15. But then, there's the annual camp costs, in our case rent, (paid to the govt in our case) in addition to the costs of trips in to maintain trails, and the camp itself etc, that have to be done regardless of hunting or not.

This can lead to not only discouragement of existing members, but great difficulty in getting new members.

I have friends in other camps who have quit moose hunting entirely, not being able to afford to drive the better part of a day north to areas where tags are plentiful.

Around my house, (54b) I am of the opinion that moose numbers are rising, however, a trip to camp a week ago, shows that this doesn't appear to be the case there (56).

I'm not quitting, until I'm too damned old BTW.

Comments?

Once you have built up points, you will be able to defer them and have (if managed) years of pretty well guaranteed tags no?

Between your camp crew I mean.


Ultimately the new system means more people will have the possibility of drawing tags. At least in theory .

 

[yomomma]

I have had my property for just over 5 years, been moose hunting 10-11 years( should say I've been buying licenses for that long) Had won the draw a few years ago, but declined cause my cabin wasn't done enough. I should have enough points next year to get a tag. Going up this weekend to do some serious scouting for moose and other hunters.

I'm 53A, lots of moose around, some right at the cabin door. Like you, I can quit when I'm dead.

https://imgur.com/9EQyKb2

 

[FatCatsDad]

Moose population management comes at a cost.
One cost is frustrated sportsmen .
They could sell a tag to everyone, but in 2 years Moose will be gone the way of the dinosaurs.

 

[hoytcanon]

Apply smart and travel. If you tie yourself down to one camp in one unit, you are bound to be frustrated. If you want to hunt, you can... you just have to break out of your routine and see some new country.

 

[jjohnwm]

Yeah, I get that it's a hardship for established Ontario hunters...I was one for most of my life...but it's also a relief to hear that the Ontario gummint has woken up to reality. You just can't sell tags across the counter for years, allowing everybody and his dog to shoot a calf moose, without running up against the brick wall of not enough moose and too many hunters.

The mentality of "everybody gets a tag" has caught up with them, and the saddest part is that the Ministry just shrugs it off; they'll raise prices somewhere else, or everywhere else, in order not to lose revenue. It's the hunters and the animals who will suffer.

 

[Thunderhog]

Yeah, I get that it's a hardship for established Ontario hunters...I was one for most of my life...but it's also a relief to hear that the Ontario gummint has woken up to reality. You just can't sell tags across the counter for years, allowing everybody and his dog to shoot a calf moose, without running up against the brick wall of not enough moose and too many hunters.

The mentality of "everybody gets a tag" has caught up with them, and the saddest part is that the Ministry just shrugs it off; they'll raise prices somewhere else, or everywhere else, in order not to lose revenue. It's the hunters and the animals who will suffer.

Well said John!....

Our moose numbers here in BC have declined substantially in the last ten years. In the late 1990's we used to see approximately 2-3 moose every time out hunting here in the East Kootenays of BC. Now you are lucky to see 1-2 animals per hunting season.

The government has created a good LEH draw program, and a ten point or three brow tine restriction up North. Unfortunately over hunting, loss of habitat, predator kills and Indigenous harvests are still hard on the population. In addition the BCWF decided to kill off a pile of moose thinking this would save the caribou, and no I do not want to have dialogue with any keyboard warriors' about this ridiculous idea because it's the stupidest thing I have ever researched. LOL

Moose are amazing, majestic and delicious, it would be a crying shame if they disappeared to mismanagement........

 

[jjohnwm]

Well said John!....

Our moose numbers here in BC have declined substantially in the last ten years. In the late 1990's we used to see approximately 2-3 moose every time out hunting here in the East Kootenays of BC. Now you are lucky to see 1-2 animals per hunting season.

The government has created a good LEH draw program, and a ten point or three brow tine restriction up North. Unfortunately over hunting, loss of habitat, predator kills and Indigenous harvests are still hard on the population. In addition the BCWF decided to kill off a pile of moose thinking this would save the caribou, and no I do not want to have dialogue with any keyboard warriors' about this ridiculous idea because it's the stupidest thing I have ever researched. LOL

Moose are amazing, majestic and delicious, it would be a crying shame if they disappeared to mismanagement........

Yes, and I certainly didn't meant to imply that it's only Ontario that is guilty of this type of stupidity. I'm in Manitoba now and believe me, we have at least as much of it here as in Ontario.

I always smirked at the logic the Ontario MNR would use to explain their old stance. According to them, since half of calf moose fail to survive their first winter...that means that shooting 1000 calves in the fall is really the equivalent of only shooting 500, since, half of them are gonna die anyways before spring.

When I was involved in a...let's call it a "discussion"...about this with another Ontario hunter, many years ago, he pointed to that argument and staunchly proclaimed that the thinkers who came up with it were much smarter than he and I were, and that I should trust them. I countered by saying that if 50% of calves are going to die each winter...well, shooting half of them before winter leaves you with the other half...50% of which are still going to die. His expression was priceless...but he quickly bounced back with "Well, I'm sure the experts know better than we do..."

 

[FatCatsDad]

When issuing tags gossip and rumours are that the ministry takes into account an estimation of poached animals and factors that into total number if allowed harvestable moose.
This results in even fewer tags available.

It's the draw costs etc that fund these management programs.

Years ago I hunted in ON wmu 41, I'd be interested in knowing deer population there currently.
Year round poaching took more deer than legit hunters I think.

it wouldn't surprise me to hear in the future hunting will be allowed in odd numbered years or other drastic measures, 3 day legal season perhaps

 

[Thunderhog]

Yes, and I certainly didn't meant to imply that it's only Ontario that is guilty of this type of stupidity. I'm in Manitoba now and believe me, we have at least as much of it here as in Ontario.

I always smirked at the logic the Ontario MNR would use to explain their old stance. According to them, since half of calf moose fail to survive their first winter...that means that shooting 1000 calves in the fall is really the equivalent of only shooting 500, since, half of them are gonna die anyways before spring.

When I was involved in a...let's call it a "discussion"...about this with another Ontario hunter, many years ago, he pointed to that argument and staunchly proclaimed that the thinkers who came up with it were much smarter than he and I were, and that I should trust them. I countered by saying that if 50% of calves are going to die each winter...well, shooting half of them before winter leaves you with the other half...50% of which are still going to die. His expression was priceless...but he quickly bounced back with "Well, I'm sure the experts know better than we do..."

Indeed, one can never fix stupid!....

I am shocked how we as gun owners and hunters can eat each other alive in most debates. Everyone thinks they are smarter than everyone else. This is exactly the hatred and division the Liberals and Democrats have been spewing and designed to create and manifest. It makes very small groups that they can pick off and kill off one by one. It's really to bad they are winning the fight.

We all know what will need to be done once sh1t hits the fan.

 

[DGY]

I always wonder why they dont do like Quebec, in tease the number of tags required per moose, 2 or 3 tags per moose that way everyone can hunt and the pressure on moose is lowered! I wish they would do that up here I stead of going the lottery route the territory has been going!

 

[sam menard]

In Ontario, the points needed for a tag varies depending on the unit that you apply for. Fortunately for me, I hunt a unit where 4 points are required for a bull tag. We have 4 guys in the group, so we get a bull tag every year. A quarter of a moose is plenty of meat of meat for me. To answer the OP’s question, I’m fine with the new system as I can reasonably predict when I will be eligible for a tag. Once all the baby boomers quit hunting, there will be plenty of tags.

I read a previous post above about minimum antler point requirements in BC. That wouldn’t work in Ontario… hunters would go off the deep end. Many hunters go for years without seeing a bull in range so telling them that they have to count antler points first before shooting would blow their minds. Its hard enough to get guys to properly identify moose let alone figure out if it has enough points to be legal.

 

[Desjard]

Damn and I thought using 7 years of points for my bull last year was a long wait.

Problem is the 2 legged wolves. No one likes talking about them though.

 

[brybenn]

I've written off moose hunting in Ontario with the exception of just getting a way for a week with the guys. The area I'd hunt has lots of moose. Tags are next to impossible to get. It was like 14 guys needed to get a tag in the old system.
Bear hunting in that area I'd see 3 to 7 moose a week within bow range.
Always felt that if I was the one who shot the adult tag of which 14 guys were hunting on I'd feel bad. Especially if it was the first hour on the first day.
I much prefer bear hunting anyway but some day I'll travel elsewhere to hunt moose

 

[Thunderhog]

In Ontario, the points needed for a tag varies depending on the unit that you apply for. Fortunately for me, I hunt a unit where 4 points are required for a bull tag. We have 4 guys in the group, so we get a bull tag every year. A quarter of a moose is plenty of meat of meat for me. To answer the OP’s question, I’m fine with the new system as I can reasonably predict when I will be eligible for a tag. Once all the baby boomers quit hunting, there will be plenty of tags.

I read a previous post above about minimum antler point requirements in BC. That wouldn’t work in Ontario… hunters would go off the deep end. Many hunters go for years without seeing a bull in range so telling them that they have to count antler points first before shooting would blow their minds. Its hard enough to get guys to properly identify moose let alone figure out if it has enough points to be legal.

Your last paragraph makes total sense.

It has been proven in BC that antler restrictions' will lead to many an elk being shot and left to rot without reporting to the COS. In our 6 point elk season, over 100 five point bulls are shot and left. It's been like this for over twenty years now. Unfortunately due to several slob and drunk hunters our elk populations are in serious trouble.

Moose get shot and left in northern BC due to the antler restrictions and plenty of three point Mule deer bucks also get shot and left behind. Our socialist NDP government is too stupid to figure out these restrictions do not work. But the BC government does not care about proper wildlife management, they never have. This 2024 Fall season has been the worst season I have seen in over 50 years of hunting. The hunters all have the same story, why is there no game this year?

If we do not get a government that can see the current wildlife management issues here in BC, there will be no big game left to hunt. That's probably what they want in the long haul, then they can say, why do you need a firearm, there is nothing to hunt. I know this sounds extreme, but one has to live in BC to understand how stupid, WOKE and uneducated our NDP or Liberal governments are in BC. Pathetic indeed!.......

 

[9.3mauser]

The new tag system may be great for the moose, but it's very frustrating for hunters. For me as an example, I have 13 points this year, and no tag. That's 13 years I have not drawn a tag of any sort for moose. Many camps have no one with sufficient points to draw a tag, and thus the entire camp can't hunt.

I'm in WMU 60, a little south of you. I drew my very first bull tag under the old system in 1990. Then I had a 19yr wait for my second. I'm now waiting for my 3rd, with 15 points going into next year. From my point of view, the only thing that's changed is the predictability. At least now I can predict when I'm likely to draw again, under the old random draw system I might never have gotten another. The group tag system only benefited those who had the option and desire of hunting in a large group. Individual hunters were often s.o.l.

Do any of your group apply for calf tags? I know it's hard to swallow burning points for a calf, but looking at last years draw somebody could have had one with 6 or 7 points.

I figure I have one more bull tag left in my home unit, then I'll have to find a few guys willing to make the pilgrimage north to hunt.

 

[FatCatsDad]

Why the hesitation to drive ?
I drove Toronto to Rainy River WMU 10, one year for deer, about 17 hours.

 

[Northern Shooter]

We hunt in 41 and the numbers seemed to be decreasing the last 5 years. We have a camp of 17 guys and went multiple years drawing nothing. Our 2 weeks in Moose camp ended up becoming bike weekends, armed bird watching, maybe trying for a bear.

This year we finally drew 2 Cow tags, both members had 24+ points to draw such.

As someone with 14 points I know that I'm at least a decade out from drawing myself and with the way the point system has been trending I could be forever chasing the points required.

To be successful you seem to need to have a large membership in camp of various ages with different point classes. We have guys with <10, 10-20, and 20-25.

As a side note, I've started to invest in outfitted hunts for big game out of Province to help increase the odds of successfully harvesting an animal compared to the crap shoot we have here at home.

 

[wheelin_ca]

havent missed a season yet, but we drive to wmu5 from the gta. we have 2 tags this year bull and cow for 7 guys.

it sucks to drive so far, but its my main hunt because moose tastes so much better than deer lol.

 

[sam menard]

Why the hesitation to drive ?
I drove Toronto to Rainy River WMU 10, one year for deer, about 17 hours.

Speaking from 40 years of experience there, a 17-hour drive to WMU 10 is a waste of gas and time these days. It was once considered to be one of the best units to hunt deer in Ontario, sadly those days are behind us.