Ares Defense G-35 Gas Piston Kit
- Thread starter steyr_m
- Start date
Now that's very funny! Whether the military uses them or not is surely not a measure of success. Lots of fantastic things around that the military can't or won't buy because of politics or affordability. As far as I know, Al has never bid on a military contract. Maybe he will someday.
Maybe Para will do it. I know there are some out there in contractor's hands. Nothing but good reports from where the sand is as fine as talcum powder. The world's best shooters consider them a success, and that holds way more water in my opinion.
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the one that comes to mind immediately is the RHINO- you varied the gas by means of a screw in the front end- never had any intrest as we don't shhot full auto up here anyway-and i think i first saw one in a article dated 78- i didn't like the way you had to carve up your forend to accomdate the piston housing
Everything is adaptable when thousands of people and companies put decades of time, effort, and research into trying to make it adaptable.
Yes passing some quality standard is no measure of success, its a measure of quality and durability.
By not submitting his product means he did not feel 100% confident in his product, so why should I be?
Coming from a ZM owner I am sure you are very impartial.
Contractors could carry rubber batons, that doesnt make them awesome superior weapons.
Next time post some references.
Hk coul dnot market Free ### - and units buy the Hk416 hand over fist...
Worst best shooters as a group would be the Tier1 SF units -- and last time I looked none of those units are using ZM.
I appreciate you seem to be buddies with the owner -- but I consider them a dog and would not touch them with a ten foot pole.
Then you might want to take your bolt carrier apart and clean it. I bet it's pretty dirty in there, by now.
"DI" means nothing, in and of itself. It is a name for a system in which gas is routed by the gas tube to a chamber bounded at one end by the bolt, and at the other end by the bolt carrier. This gas, at high pressure, pushes the bolt and bolt carrier apart, causing the bolt to rotate (and thereby unlock), and causing the bolt carrier to move rearward with respect to the locking block. The bolt carrier must be moving with sufficient velocity that it's momentum can completely extract the cartridge (including primary extraction), #### the hammer, and completely move the bolt carrier assembly to the rear.
The amount of force required to do this is considerable. Force in this context is gas pressure multiplied by area.
The cup on the end of what you are calling a "piston", but is in fact merely a second concentric gas tube, does not have sufficient surface area to provide the requisite force to accomplish all of the above.
I think its rather hootingly funny that you own the rifle, shoot the rifle, and don't understand its most basic nature.
I figured out it was DI in about 45 seconds, and confirmed it with the Para rep at SHOT. What clued me in was the small size of the "piston".
I don't need to own an airplane to know how one works, either.
Ah, here's the patent:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=5NE3AAAAEBAJ&dq=extended+gas+key
Your "11" piston" is actually called an "extended gas key"... in YOUR owners manual. Just thought I'd ppoint that out.
Here's a thread from some forum, too:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-58423.html
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And, from page 16 of the owners manual, so kindly linked by Scarecrow:
That's direct impingement.
On reflection, I find it ENORMOUSLY funny that you don't understand your own gun. I guess the proof isn't in the shooting!
That's direct impingement.
On reflection, I find it ENORMOUSLY funny that you don't understand your own gun. I guess the proof isn't in the shooting!
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I never said they were better than the HK. Just an alternative. You may not like them, and that's great. What I meant by the world's best shooters was Todd, Robbie and Jerry. The guys that train most of the elite. They all own ZM's. That's where I take my cue.
You know what you can - send me a demo unit and a case of ammo, and I will let you know!
Same offer applies!!! If anyone's ever down here in the people's republic of Ontario, they are welcome to shoot it all they want!!!
Alex, The fact is a competition shooter will train parts of a SOF shooting package - not the whole package -- which is why guys are sent around to various places to pick up the good and discard the bad.
A competition shooter will have a different need for a firearm than soldiers will have from a weapon.
Since none of those guys are runnign around all jocked up - nor using other accessories that are required in the fight. Bartledan pointed out that you clearly dont understand the weapon, I will offer that you clearly also dont understand the training and needs behind the shooters.
If it works for you fine -- but dont mistake that for real world needs and sucesses.
-Kev
A competition shooter will have a different need for a firearm than soldiers will have from a weapon.
Since none of those guys are runnign around all jocked up - nor using other accessories that are required in the fight. Bartledan pointed out that you clearly dont understand the weapon, I will offer that you clearly also dont understand the training and needs behind the shooters.
If it works for you fine -- but dont mistake that for real world needs and sucesses.
-Kev
Alex,
I will have two Hk416's in and around the Ottawa/Petawawa area if you interested in checking them out. I'm not trying to be a #### about this -- just have an open and honest exchange of info.
I still agree with Reaper and many other that the DI system of the M16FOW is 99.9% of everyones needs
I will have two Hk416's in and around the Ottawa/Petawawa area if you interested in checking them out. I'm not trying to be a #### about this -- just have an open and honest exchange of info.
I still agree with Reaper and many other that the DI system of the M16FOW is 99.9% of everyones needs
Hi Kev!
Just so that I can be accurate, I just talked to Al and I was wrong. The US gov't did test and purchase a number of these and they are in use currently in small numbers within the SF community. Have been since about 2001.
Oh, and the system in the ZM is called Delayed Enclosed Gas. The block delays the gas before sending it down the op-rod(gas key/piston). This aids greatly in keeping it reliable in full auto with a short barrel. It's extra vents keeps it much cleaner in the carrier area then a regular DI setup. This is 100% true as I can compare the dirt buildup with my DPMS. I've already shot a HK in Mass. last year and it's great. But it recoils harder than a 11.5"ZM in full auto.
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And I am called "super mega ultra power Dan"! Words are just noisy breaths, and the written word is just squiggly marks on dead trees. "Delayed Enclosed Gas" has no more innate meaning than "burble grunty bye bye foof"
Marketing balderdash. Real fluids don't work that way.
delete this tripe....
...and this is true. There would be no problem of "overblast" getting in the receiver area. it would accumulate harmlessly in the handguard.
So, either you knew all along your ZM was direct impingement, or you have decided to backpedal. Which is it?
The only way you can have honestly thought your ZM was a piston gun was by never having stripped the bolt carrier, in which case you cannot know how it compares with your DPMS.
If you have honestly compared the ZM with the DPMS, you must have known all along the ZM was DI.
These two are logically incompatible. They cannot BOTH be true.
This looks bad, frankly. I'm guessing you are now, or are almost, involved in the distribution of this rifle in Canada. Perhaps you have partial ownership of the excerable Para-Ordnance?
To say that one .223 rifle recoils harder than another draws from me a resounding "piffle!" Again, I smell marketing hogwash.
PLUS, if you have shot a ZM in full auto, this lends credence to my theory that you are involved in the ZM business.
If you are in the ZM business, then let me point out that that technology was patented in like 1984, and failed to catch on. Also, that patent is expired, and now anybody can develop it. Probably not the world's best investment.
Perhaps you should do your homework?
Christ, I'm merciless!
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F22_RaptoR
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Edmonton, Alberta
Even though .223 is a fairly "easy" round to shoot, i have heard from just about every HK 416 upper owner in the US, that the 416's have noticably more "felt recoil" compared to a DI system (most likely due to the op-rod smacking into the bolt carrier)
Nothing wrong with DI by any means, i like the HK416 just because of its handguard
If I have strayed beyond the acerbic and into the uncivil, I apologize.
