Asking all bubba's - WHY?

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gunrunner8

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Friend of mine asked me to rebarrel his Savage 10 with Shaw 7-08 heavy and fluted barrel without dreaded nut. Fair enough, easy enough. I had hell of a time to remove that barrel from the receiver, even when useing 3' long pipe and almost hanging on it (400lbf+?), still no-go. It suposed to be easy b/c I made the HD removal tools myself.
Old, rusted Mausers or Lee Enfields I am prepared for but not this. Lo and behold I had to cut the groove in front of receiver for final heave to get it moving.... During inspection I noticed some kind of loctite on the threads!!
I have a question - What is the reason for doing it? 1-1/16" x 20TPI (super fine) thread tightened with say 50lbf is plenty in any situation.
Why do I see so many loctite used on barrel threads latelly?
 
I'm willing to bet the Loc-Tite was not put in at the factory. I have run into similar jobs. In a couple of cases, even the nut was glued on.

In all cases, none of the owners were embarrassed to admit they had applied the Loc Tite. They did it because their rifles weren't as accurate as they had hoped for and there seems to be a rumor going around out there that applying Loc Tite will tighten up what appears to be sloppy fitting of threads or some other myth.

Savage factory threads are snug but never tight. I have not run across anything that would be considered a loose fit either.

I like the Savage Lock Nut System and can see why Marlin has gone to it. Maybe Savage is making some of the rifles for Marlin???

I saw a very nice switch barrel Remington 700 that is using a Lock Nut system that tightens up against the recoil lug. From what I can gather, the recoil lug has the threads removed and fits on a machined edge that is the same diameter as the tenon threads. Looked OK. I don't know if the nut is commercially available or if it was home built. Anyway, it was a good job and the rifle had three different barrels. 257 Rob, 308 Win and 338 Federal. All of the barrels had mate marks to line up with mate marks on the bottom of the receiver and each side of the recoil lug.

About 15 minutes, with proper tools to swap out barrels and another few minutes looking up the information in the record book to set the scope adjustments that were proprietary to each barrel installed. I like it and am considering doing one for myself. The Lock Nut removes the necessity of tightening the barrel to get a couple of thou compression.

Sorry Roman, I got off topic there. I was quite impressed with that rifle and how well it shot.
 
It seems like almost once a week someone has a hell of a time removing a savage barrel ,I must be lucky so far cause for me they always come right off.
I guess some guys don't understand that loctite has no place on barrel threads .
 
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Savage does not use loc tite or any other product on the threads, never did. Sometimes salts from bluing get in there, usually it is from the owner during cleaning.
 
I think that all Bubba's believe that they are improving the firearm that they worked on, in some cases they do but not very often.
 
Silverback said:
I think that all Bubba's believe that they are improving the firearm that they worked on, in some cases they do but not very often.
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Just remember, somebody probably called John Moses Browning a Bubba (or the equivalent at that time). Just sayin. "These damned newfangled semi automatics"
 
dogzilla said:
Just remember, somebody probably called John Moses Browning a Bubba (or the equivalent at that time). Just sayin. "These damned newfangled semi automatics"
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I kind of agree with you there dogzilla.

Whatever bubba may be doing, it's only being "bubba" until enough people are doing it and then it's "common practice", or even "common sense".

Just look at using loctite on rifle scope bases. "Bubba" to some, "always" to others, and both camps include seasoned, respected rifleman.

And in regards to loctite specifically, as long as a person knows it's there, three minutes with a heat gun and it's a non factor. I use loctite regularly (never on a barrel or barrel nut mind you...) and I've NEVER had a problem removing the loctite'ed (real word???) items afterwards. Just apply heat and treat as usual...It is kind of amazing how often guys DON"T do this however, I have to admit.
 
Ive ripped the threads out of a snowmobile clutch that someone had loctited with the red stuff. If you know its there, its a lot easier to deal with.
Also I have never used it on my scopes, but yesterday I had two scope mounts come loose on me at the range. I think I'll use some blue loctite on them for the next trip.
 
perhaps it was put on to take up a bit of slack in the threads as they may have felt a bit loose intially and Bubba thought they felt better after some goop got put in there.

as to loose threads, one 'smith on this site says tapered threads take up the alignment so the fit is not that important, yet others disagree... but this guy is supposed to have built some dandy rifles.
and then I recently read in a gun rag that loose threads will always affect accuracy...

so depending on your school of thought...

one other thought... no proper vise and wrench handi, so the LT was used to keep it all together after a handtightening
 
If a thread is torqued right, it SHOULDN'T need Loctite. That of course is in a perfect world. I find a lot of people under tighten these tiny screws out of fear of stripping them. Red Loctite doesn't belong on a gun unless you have to fix something you already screwed up. The second thing is that just a drop will do the job, or do like a lot of companies do for stuff that needs assembly. Put the Loctite on the screw and let it dry before installing the screw
 
Years before loctite was invented or on the market like it is now the old gun writers in Outddor Life used iodine to keep the little screws tight.I used it many times and it seemed to work as I never had a problem. On my Super Blackhawk 44 mag the fellow before me had problems with the one frame screw coming loose all the time until he busted it off and could not fix it himself. So he sold it to me cheap. I got it out and used blue Loctite to hold it in even thou it's actually against the rules for steel targets to do it for some stupid reason.
 
Probably those who use Loctite do so because when Remington first came out with the 700 some sort of sealant similar to blue Loctite was used on the threads... and 700's set the accuracy bar for a factory rifle. Loctite will not adversely affect accuracy but I doubt it will increase accuracy in a barrel that is torqued tight. I have seen some quite tight Savage assemblies requiring a barrel vise, an action wrench and a nut wrench to get them apart. Barrels that are not torqued tight will probably benefit from Loctite.

60 degree V threads do not require an interference fit for best accuracy... in theory slightly loose is better than slightly tight as it allows the assembly to center as it is torqued tight. Square threads however require a closer fit.

On really tight assemblies if it does not break loose on the first attempt, I will heat it up and try it again... and it comes loose, rarely I have to machine it loose.
 
"...What is the reason for doing it?..." One. Bubbafying doesn't apply to commercial hunting rifles.
Lock-tite is used for liability reasons. The U.S. gun makers are terrified of frivolous law suites. All of which cost money. They don't want you taking a barrel off for any reason.
 
I'm not sure if its for liability so much, I use just to keep the screws tight. It seems on some guns things work loose a little easier without it.
 
sunray said:
"...What is the reason for doing it?..." One. Bubbafying doesn't apply to commercial hunting rifles.
Lock-tite is used for liability reasons. The U.S. gun makers are terrified of frivolous law suites. All of which cost money. They don't want you taking a barrel off for any reason.
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You may have a valid point as the Lawyers rule in the U.S.
 
I have only put some blue loc tite on my moss 500 when the safety screw came loose and lost my detent ball, i replaced with a stainless screw and a dab of blue
 
Vast majority of rifle barrel threads (exept Mauser and such) are special ultra fine threads that using even mild thread lockers gives no benefit what so ever. The same goes with 6/48 and 8/40 base and ring screws, tight them up properly and they won't get loose b/c they were designed that way to keep them tight.
On the contrary all those ultra fine threads would benefit from a dab of quality "Never Seeze" compound.
All IFS and BUTS don't apply, trust me I am in machining bussiness since AD1972 and know what I am talking about.
GR8s 5c worth....
 
Yup, I gotta agree with GR8. I've built a few nice rifles and was taught to use anti-seize compund. Never any problems. Just don't use a lot of it as it's messy stuff.
 
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