Passed us by eh?......Young fellas always think they know everything. Just like that swanky new "smokeless powder" or those "telescopic sights" everyone seems to talk about....yeah right, that'll really catch on.......lolGIXXER said:
Assault Rifles For Hunters = "Terrorist Rifles" - Jim Zumbo Blog
- Thread starter X-man
- Start date
This was published in the Washington Post and then reprinted by the Ottawa Citizen
PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen
DATE: 2007.02.25
EDITION: Final
SECTION: News
PAGE: A9
ILLUSTRATION: Photo: Jim Zumbo's dramatic fall from grace is case study
ofhow the NRA has trained its members to attack their perceived enemies,
said a fellow outdoors writer. ;
DATELINE: SEATTLE
BYLINE: Blaine Harden
SOURCE: The Washington Post
WORD COUNT: 956
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
The bigger they are, the harder they fall: Jim Zumbo dared to call
assault rifles 'terrorist' guns. He has since lost his TV show, his
writing job, his sponsors and was booted from the NRA, writes Blaine
Harden.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
SEATTLE- Modern hunters rarely become more famous than Jim Zumbo. A
moustachioed, barrel-chested outdoors entrepreneur who lives in a log
cabin near Yellowstone National Park, he has spent much of his life
writing for prominent outdoors magazines, delivering lectures across the
country and starring in cable TV shows about big-game hunting in the
West.
Mr. Zumbo's fame, however, has turned to black-bordered infamy within
U.S.'s gun culture -- and his multimedia success has come undone. It all
happened in the past week, after he publicly criticized the use of
military-style assault rifles by hunters, especially those gunning for
prairie dogs.
"Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these
weapons among our hunting fraternity," Mr. Zumbo wrote in his blog on
the Outdoor Life website. The Feb. 16 posting has since been taken down.
"As hunters, we don't need to be lumped into the group of people who
terrorize the world with them. ... I'll go so far as to call them
'terrorist' rifles."
The reaction -- from tens of thousands of owners of assault rifles
across the country, from media and manufacturers rooted in the gun
business, and from the National Rifle Association -- has been swift,
severe and unforgiving. Despite a profuse public apology and a vow to go
hunting soon with an assault weapon, Mr. Zumbo's career appears to be
over.
His top-rated weekly TV program on the Outdoor Channel, his longtime
career with Outdoor Life magazine and his corporate ties to the biggest
names in gunmaking, including Remington Arms Co., have been terminated,
or are on the ropes.
The NRA on Thursday pointed to the collapse of Mr. Zumbo's career as an
example of what can happen to anyone, including a "fellow gun owner,"
who challenges the right of Americans to own or hunt with assault-style
firearms.
From his home near Cody, Wyoming, Mr. Zumbo declined repeated telephone
requests for comment. He is a 40-year NRA member and has appeared with
NRA officials in 70 cities, according to his website.
In announcing that it was suspending its professional ties with Mr.
Zumbo, the NRA -- a well-financed gun lobby that for decades has fought
attempts to regulate assault weapons -- noted that the new Congress
should pay careful attention to the outdoors writer's fate.
"Our folks fully understand that their rights are at stake," the NRA
statement said. It warned that the "grassroots" passion that brought
down Mr. Zumbo shows that millions of people would "resist with an
immense singular political will any attempts to create a new ban on
semi-automatic firearms."
Some outdoors writers drew a different lesson from Mr. Zumbo's horrible
week.
"This shows the zealousness of gun owners to the point of actual
foolishness," said Pat Wray, an outdoors writer in Corvallis, Oregon,
and author of A Chukar Hunter's Companion. Mr. Wray said what happened
to Mr. Zumbo is a case study in how the NRA has trained members to
attack their perceived enemies without mercy.
"For so many years, Zumbo has been a voice for these people -- for
hunting and for guns -- and they just turned on him in an instant," Mr.
Wray said. "He apologized all over himself, and it didn't do any good."
Mr. Zumbo's fall highlights a fundamental concern of the NRA and many
champions of military-style firearms, according to people who follow the
organization closely. They do not want U.S. gun owners to make a
distinction between assault weapons and shotguns and rifles. If they
did, a rift could emerge between hunters, who tend to have the most
money for political contributions to gun rights causes, and
assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion, but less cash.
The NRA appeared to be saying as much when it emphasized the Zumbo
affair shows there is "no chance" that a "divide and conquer propaganda
strategy" could ever succeed.
Jim Zumbo Outdoors was not broadcast last week on the Outdoor Channel
and will not air next week, said Mike Hiles, a spokesman for the
channel. He said sponsors have requested they be removed from the
program. The show "will be in hiatus for an undetermined period of
time," he said.
Mr. Zumbo's long career at Outdoor Life, which is owned by Time Inc.,
also came to a sudden end in the past week. Mr. Zumbo was hunting editor
of the magazine, which is the nation's second-largest outdoors
publication. He wrote his first story for Outdoor Life in 1962.
The magazine's editor in chief, Todd W. Smith, said that Mr. Zumbo
submitted his resignation after hearing of the large number of readers
(about 6,000, at last count) who had sent e-mails demanding his
dismissal.
"Jim is a good guy, and I feel bad about this unfortunate situation,"
Mr. Smith said. "We are living in very delicate times. For someone to
call these firearms 'terrorist' rifles, that is a flash-point word. You
are painting a bunch of enthusiasts with the word. They don't like being
called terrorists."
When he wrote his now-notorious blog entry, Mr. Zumbo was on a coyote
hunt in Wyoming sponsored by Remington, a detail he noted in the entry.
That mention -- as it bounced around in recent days among a number of
assault-weapon websites -- triggered a call for a boycott of Remington
products.
That prompted Remington to issue a news release, saying that it has
"severed all sponsorship ties with Mr. Zumbo effective immediately."
Remington chief executive Tommy Millner issued a personal appeal to gun
owners who might be thinking about boycotting the company's products:
"Rest assured that Remington not only does not support (Mr. Zumbo's)
view, we totally disagree," Mr. Millner said. "I have no explanation for
his perspective. I proudly own AR's and support everyone's right to do
so!"
Mr. Zumbo, in his public apology, said that when he wrote the blog entry
that criticized assault rifles, he was at the end of a long day's hunt.
"I was tired and exhausted," he wrote, "and I should have gone to bed
early."
PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen
DATE: 2007.02.25
EDITION: Final
SECTION: News
PAGE: A9
ILLUSTRATION: Photo: Jim Zumbo's dramatic fall from grace is case study
ofhow the NRA has trained its members to attack their perceived enemies,
said a fellow outdoors writer. ;
DATELINE: SEATTLE
BYLINE: Blaine Harden
SOURCE: The Washington Post
WORD COUNT: 956
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
The bigger they are, the harder they fall: Jim Zumbo dared to call
assault rifles 'terrorist' guns. He has since lost his TV show, his
writing job, his sponsors and was booted from the NRA, writes Blaine
Harden.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
SEATTLE- Modern hunters rarely become more famous than Jim Zumbo. A
moustachioed, barrel-chested outdoors entrepreneur who lives in a log
cabin near Yellowstone National Park, he has spent much of his life
writing for prominent outdoors magazines, delivering lectures across the
country and starring in cable TV shows about big-game hunting in the
West.
Mr. Zumbo's fame, however, has turned to black-bordered infamy within
U.S.'s gun culture -- and his multimedia success has come undone. It all
happened in the past week, after he publicly criticized the use of
military-style assault rifles by hunters, especially those gunning for
prairie dogs.
"Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these
weapons among our hunting fraternity," Mr. Zumbo wrote in his blog on
the Outdoor Life website. The Feb. 16 posting has since been taken down.
"As hunters, we don't need to be lumped into the group of people who
terrorize the world with them. ... I'll go so far as to call them
'terrorist' rifles."
The reaction -- from tens of thousands of owners of assault rifles
across the country, from media and manufacturers rooted in the gun
business, and from the National Rifle Association -- has been swift,
severe and unforgiving. Despite a profuse public apology and a vow to go
hunting soon with an assault weapon, Mr. Zumbo's career appears to be
over.
His top-rated weekly TV program on the Outdoor Channel, his longtime
career with Outdoor Life magazine and his corporate ties to the biggest
names in gunmaking, including Remington Arms Co., have been terminated,
or are on the ropes.
The NRA on Thursday pointed to the collapse of Mr. Zumbo's career as an
example of what can happen to anyone, including a "fellow gun owner,"
who challenges the right of Americans to own or hunt with assault-style
firearms.
From his home near Cody, Wyoming, Mr. Zumbo declined repeated telephone
requests for comment. He is a 40-year NRA member and has appeared with
NRA officials in 70 cities, according to his website.
In announcing that it was suspending its professional ties with Mr.
Zumbo, the NRA -- a well-financed gun lobby that for decades has fought
attempts to regulate assault weapons -- noted that the new Congress
should pay careful attention to the outdoors writer's fate.
"Our folks fully understand that their rights are at stake," the NRA
statement said. It warned that the "grassroots" passion that brought
down Mr. Zumbo shows that millions of people would "resist with an
immense singular political will any attempts to create a new ban on
semi-automatic firearms."
Some outdoors writers drew a different lesson from Mr. Zumbo's horrible
week.
"This shows the zealousness of gun owners to the point of actual
foolishness," said Pat Wray, an outdoors writer in Corvallis, Oregon,
and author of A Chukar Hunter's Companion. Mr. Wray said what happened
to Mr. Zumbo is a case study in how the NRA has trained members to
attack their perceived enemies without mercy.
"For so many years, Zumbo has been a voice for these people -- for
hunting and for guns -- and they just turned on him in an instant," Mr.
Wray said. "He apologized all over himself, and it didn't do any good."
Mr. Zumbo's fall highlights a fundamental concern of the NRA and many
champions of military-style firearms, according to people who follow the
organization closely. They do not want U.S. gun owners to make a
distinction between assault weapons and shotguns and rifles. If they
did, a rift could emerge between hunters, who tend to have the most
money for political contributions to gun rights causes, and
assault-weapon owners, who tend to have lots of passion, but less cash.
The NRA appeared to be saying as much when it emphasized the Zumbo
affair shows there is "no chance" that a "divide and conquer propaganda
strategy" could ever succeed.
Jim Zumbo Outdoors was not broadcast last week on the Outdoor Channel
and will not air next week, said Mike Hiles, a spokesman for the
channel. He said sponsors have requested they be removed from the
program. The show "will be in hiatus for an undetermined period of
time," he said.
Mr. Zumbo's long career at Outdoor Life, which is owned by Time Inc.,
also came to a sudden end in the past week. Mr. Zumbo was hunting editor
of the magazine, which is the nation's second-largest outdoors
publication. He wrote his first story for Outdoor Life in 1962.
The magazine's editor in chief, Todd W. Smith, said that Mr. Zumbo
submitted his resignation after hearing of the large number of readers
(about 6,000, at last count) who had sent e-mails demanding his
dismissal.
"Jim is a good guy, and I feel bad about this unfortunate situation,"
Mr. Smith said. "We are living in very delicate times. For someone to
call these firearms 'terrorist' rifles, that is a flash-point word. You
are painting a bunch of enthusiasts with the word. They don't like being
called terrorists."
When he wrote his now-notorious blog entry, Mr. Zumbo was on a coyote
hunt in Wyoming sponsored by Remington, a detail he noted in the entry.
That mention -- as it bounced around in recent days among a number of
assault-weapon websites -- triggered a call for a boycott of Remington
products.
That prompted Remington to issue a news release, saying that it has
"severed all sponsorship ties with Mr. Zumbo effective immediately."
Remington chief executive Tommy Millner issued a personal appeal to gun
owners who might be thinking about boycotting the company's products:
"Rest assured that Remington not only does not support (Mr. Zumbo's)
view, we totally disagree," Mr. Millner said. "I have no explanation for
his perspective. I proudly own AR's and support everyone's right to do
so!"
Mr. Zumbo, in his public apology, said that when he wrote the blog entry
that criticized assault rifles, he was at the end of a long day's hunt.
"I was tired and exhausted," he wrote, "and I should have gone to bed
early."
SemiAutoSam
New member
NO actually the US military used a Select fire version of the AR15 rifle.
The military version of the AR15 is called the M16 and or also the latest variant of the M16 is called the M4 a 14.5 inch barreled version of the M16 (which uses a 20 inch barrel in most cases). The version of the AR15 that most Americans have would have at least a 16 inch barrel but Mine has a 20 inch barrel. Our Military also uses a M14 in Iraq which is chambered in .308 or 7.62x51 caliber.
The military version of the AR15 is called the M16 and or also the latest variant of the M16 is called the M4 a 14.5 inch barreled version of the M16 (which uses a 20 inch barrel in most cases). The version of the AR15 that most Americans have would have at least a 16 inch barrel but Mine has a 20 inch barrel. Our Military also uses a M14 in Iraq which is chambered in .308 or 7.62x51 caliber.
MiG25 said:
The terrorist weapon is not an AK or an AR, it is Ignorance and fear, so IMHO Jim is in good company.
Semi autos, and yes even semi auto AKs are used all around the world in great numbers for hunting.
Exhibit A:
http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-russian-saiga-ak47-hunting-rifle-xidp130771.html
Semi autos, and yes even semi auto AKs are used all around the world in great numbers for hunting.
Exhibit A:
http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-russian-saiga-ak47-hunting-rifle-xidp130771.html
Last edited:
SemiAutoSam
New member
Sorry I didn't remember if it was .308 or 7.62x51 My FN FAL's will cycle both calibers from what I understand So I figured the M14 would as well. my M1A takes both also.
MiG25 said:
Gixxer: It seems that ,as always, time seems to have passed the older generation by
I am an "older generation" shooter. Granted, I am not a gun writer, but I do wonder if your comment includes all of us "older generation"??
I am an "older generation" shooter. Granted, I am not a gun writer, but I do wonder if your comment includes all of us "older generation"??
M1Garandfather
CGN Regular
- Location
- Thunder Bay ,ON vicinity
What???
Please explain your comment here... I hope this is only some poor attempt at humour....
walksalot said:
Please explain your comment here... I hope this is only some poor attempt at humour....
I was at a party the other night and got to talking hunting. One guy commented that in some provinces it is leagal to harvest animals on another hunters tag and went on to say when they are running everywhere it woulld be nice to have a rifle to fit the occasion. I commented an assault rifle would fit the bill and he readily agreed and this guy was serious. Some peoples kids.M1Garandfather said:
Salty said:So what's wrong with that walksalot? A non restricted assault rifle is a perfectly legal and well suited rifle for the task.
No such thing as a NR assault rifle. By definition an Assault rifle is select fire.
Salty said:So what's wrong with that walksalot? A non restricted assault rifle is a perfectly legal and well suited rifle for the task.
Actually, Salty, nothing is wrong with that. You make a point that I have lost sight of. It's legal so what's the problem? I used to be against crossbows in the archery season but then realized it was a a legal weapon and we are all sportsmen/women persuing the same interests. Blinders are off and damn it's a nice world out there.
walksalot said:Actually, Salty, nothing is wrong with that. You make a point that I have lost sight of. It's legal so what's the problem? I used to be against crossbows in the archery season but then realized it was a a legal weapon and we are all sportsmen/women persuing the same interests. Blinders are off and damn it's a nice world out there.
Cool bro. Personally I don't really like any semi auto rifles but like you I will stand up for the rights of those that choose to legally use them.
Back to CanAm - ya I'm not sure exactly what an 'assault rifle' is supposed to be anymore but an M1A or a Norinky clone is of that ilk and non restricted..
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
Guys who smear semi autos or surplus rifles or basically any gun that they themselves don't own are pretty much just as bad as a full fledged anti-gun nut. We need to draw the line in the sand as firearms owners and not support any more restrictions at all on firearms whatsoever, and that includes not telling each other what we should and should not be hunting with. The more we turn on each other the easier it is to discount us as a group.
And "Assault Rifle" is actually a defined term and cannot properly be thrown around to label anything we want it to! We are sometimes our own worst enemies on this. No non-restricted firearm in Canada is an assault rifle!
In order to be an assault rifle a rifle has to have three characteristics:
1 - must fire an intermediate round
2 - must be selective fire
3 - must be able to accept high capacity magazines
And you need all three to be an Assault Rifle. Anything that looks military'ish or scary or black is not an assault rifle!
And "Assault Rifle" is actually a defined term and cannot properly be thrown around to label anything we want it to! We are sometimes our own worst enemies on this. No non-restricted firearm in Canada is an assault rifle!
In order to be an assault rifle a rifle has to have three characteristics:
1 - must fire an intermediate round
2 - must be selective fire
3 - must be able to accept high capacity magazines
And you need all three to be an Assault Rifle. Anything that looks military'ish or scary or black is not an assault rifle!
Last edited:
Longwalker said:
The way I see it, food is food, regardless of the tools you use to harvest it. It's no different from shopping at a grocery store except you're taking the food right from the source instead of paying someone else to do the dirty work for you.
- Dave.
As hunters we are up against the dark side of perception every day.
Semantics plays a huge part in the gun community. I've always looked at a weapon as a tool of war and a gun as a tool of hunting or target shooting. They're still just both guns but there is a stigma that goes with certain types of guns. I think that is something we are going to be dealing with forever so the name of the game should be education and communication.
I don't use semi's as a rule because I'm a life member of Lever Action Aholics (LAA) but I support anyone who does whether it be a domestric model or a military one.
I've found the attitude of un- gun educated people or anti's the same whether you are using a domestic or a military. Keep your cool and offer some wisdom when they stop giving you their opinion
Semantics plays a huge part in the gun community. I've always looked at a weapon as a tool of war and a gun as a tool of hunting or target shooting. They're still just both guns but there is a stigma that goes with certain types of guns. I think that is something we are going to be dealing with forever so the name of the game should be education and communication.
I don't use semi's as a rule because I'm a life member of Lever Action Aholics (LAA) but I support anyone who does whether it be a domestric model or a military one.
I've found the attitude of un- gun educated people or anti's the same whether you are using a domestic or a military. Keep your cool and offer some wisdom when they stop giving you their opinion
